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Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

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Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#161

Post by woodruffw »

tomcat27 wrote: post #98
woodruffw wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The linguistic choice of "deplatform[ing]" is such a funny one: in any other era, we'd call withholding one's business a "boycott." But the history of the word "boycott" in the US has a distinctly anti-racial hue, and people who yammer about deplatforming seem to take extreme pains to avoid any comparison between today's boycotts and those good old lunch counters.

AFAIK boycott is temporary but de-platforming is permanent. -- closing a contract.

I don't think closing a contract is a permanent thing. You can always reopen it or start a new one if and when the complaints have been addressed. That seems to be what most people have in mind, at least in my experience.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#162

Post by gonehome »

pseudalopex wrote: post #158
gonehome wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly don’t think that matters? He said pull my music and explicitly said you can have one of us not both.

So he should pull his music and tell no one why?

Imo he shouldn’t pull it.

If he is uncomfortable sharing the platform so wants to remove his music fine, I’d just say that without the “you can’t have both of us” implication.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#163

Post by sacrosancty »

An ironic detail about the positions they're staking is that one of the pieces of misinformation that Rogan was accused of spreading was speculating about whether covid escaped from a lab where it has been enhanced. Subsequently, the WHO endorsed investigating that possibility. What if it's found to be true? Are they also opposed to talking about true information before it gets approved by their preferred authorities? That's a repressive and anti-science attitude.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#164

Post by School-Cotton »

mulmen wrote: post #156
mmcgaha wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure there is; Young and Mitchell have made an active decision to shutdown their own speech or the speech of another. The difference is taking an action against another vs taking an action against yourself. I am sure that you will agree that determining your own outcome is freedom but forcing an outcome for others is oppression.

They are not shutting down their speech. They are exercising it by choosing who to associate with. The first amendment does not protect you from the actions of other private parties, it protects you from the government . I realize this is a cliche but it is critical to understand. Freedom of speech means you can say "I don't like what that person says and they shouldn't say it." And everyone else is free to agree wit…

> The first amendment does not protect you from the actions of other private parties, it protects you from the government.

Nobody in this thread was talking about the First Amendment. The concept of freedom of speech is much broader than its particular realization in US constitutional law.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#165

Post by ykevinator2 »

sacrosancty wrote: post #163

An ironic detail about the positions they're staking is that one of the pieces of misinformation that Rogan was accused of spreading was speculating about whether covid escaped from a lab where it has been enhanced. Subsequently, the WHO endorsed investigating that possibility. What if it's found to be true? Are they also opposed to talking about true information before it gets approved by their preferred authorities…

Yes, we should all be opposed to true information before it gets approved by prefered authorities. This is how religion starts.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#166

Post by guerrilla »

ch4s3 wrote: post #154
guerrilla wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every case I could find where a farmer claims that, they're able to show that the farmer in question intentionally selected those crops, replanted entire fields with those seeds, and were often selling them to neighbors. As I said, there are many cases in India that it seems you're not aware of [1]. Who would have guessed a multinational corporation would win in court against peasants the world over... It's not jus…

Th first article about India not allowing the seed until after people started buying them on the grey market, after Monsanto withdrew an application over a royalty dispute with the Indian government. Monsanto didn't sue any farmer there. The second article is about farmers intentionally planting the potatoes and refusing to stop as part of a settlement deal that offered them either purchasing contracts or asked them…

> accidentally growing patented seeds

First, that's moving the goalpost. Second, "who would have guessed a multinational corporation would win in court against peasants the world over..." You're just repeating their side of the story.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#167

Post by ykevinator2 »

tomcat27 wrote: post #18

Joe Rogan is a very good listener and his show is popular for a good reason and that's not political. Silencing this way is just cancel culture.

He's a good talker with a 7th grade education who lures weak minded people who are hurting with the comfort of shared persecution.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#168

Post by pseudalopex »

gonehome wrote: post #162
pseudalopex wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So he should pull his music and tell no one why?

Imo he shouldn’t pull it. If he is uncomfortable sharing the platform so wants to remove his music fine, I’d just say that without the “you can’t have both of us” implication.

> Imo he shouldn’t pull it.

Why not?

> If he is uncomfortable sharing the platform so wants to remove his music fine, I’d just say that without the “you can’t have both of us” implication.

The 1st part implies the 2nd.

Re: Joni Mitchell joins Neil Young in protest against Spotify

#169

Post by mulmen »

gonehome wrote: post #157
mulmen wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Still, I think it’s generally a bad idea to remove someone because of this kind of pressure. I can't agree with this in general . I can imagine a situation where it may be reasonable so I wouldn't tie my hands. In fact making this decision on a case by case basis is the business Spotify is in. > In Rogan’s specific case I also think it would be the wrong decision. Sure but that's just this case, it's not a fundamen…

In a strictly technical sense I agree. In a practical sense, one side is arguing to suppress someone’s ability to speak/express themselves via a popular platform and one side is not.

We are triggering HN's flamewar algorithm so this is my last reply. I have not argued the merits of this case at all. I don't really care about it to be honest. You supported your opinions on this case in terms of being in favor of freedom of speech. I don't think that is a sound framing. You have stated opinions as is your right, that doesn't mean whoever disagrees with you opposes freedom of speech in any way.
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