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War Is a Racket (1933)

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Re: War Is a Racket (1933)

#31

Post by fuoqi »

emptysongglass wrote: post #12
fguerraz wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all about making the war seem unavoidable. Building a common frame of reference that will then be played by media and politics to position the US on the "right side". Do the US media talk about how the US (via NATO) is, and has been for years, provoking Russia? If you find the above outrageous, then the media has done a fine job, and the country is ready to go to war. No need to explicitly argue in favour of it.

I would like to see the Ukrainians be able to determine their own fate: without war. All the numbers say the Ukrainians, by vast majority want their country for themselves, unmolested. What I hear from Western media is deep worry for the fates of these people who have become friends of the EU bloc. I work with Ukrainians daily. I am deeply worried they will be crushed beneath the tank treads of an authoritarian dicta…

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Re: War Is a Racket (1933)

#32

Post by [deleted] »

teluride5 wrote: post #11

This talk from 1933 aged poorly. America's initial lack of intervention in WW2 resulted in Pearl Harbor and German conquest of most of Europe. Smedley Butler can stay forgotten as a footnote in the dusty annals of history.

[deleted]

Re: War Is a Racket (1933)

#33

Post by xdennis »

causality0 wrote: post #16
teluride5 wrote: post #11

This talk from 1933 aged poorly. America's initial lack of intervention in WW2 resulted in Pearl Harbor and German conquest of most of Europe. Smedley Butler can stay forgotten as a footnote in the dusty annals of history.

America's initial lack of intervention in WW2 resulted in Pearl Harbor and German conquest of most of Europe Europe's refusal to follow Wilson's Fourteen Points plan and instead punish Germany as hard as possible is what created WW2 in the first place. Exactly how many of Europe's messes was the US supposed to help clean up before saying "No more"? Smedley Butler can stay forgotten as a footnote in the dusty annals o…

> punish Germany as hard as possible is what created WW2 in the first place

People like simplistic arguments for WW2. But the truth is that the terms given to Germany weren't that hash, certainly not as harsh as the terms imposed by Germany on Russia and Romania in the separate peace treaties before the end of the war.

Re: War Is a Racket (1933)

#34

Post by raintrees »

If interested, for more data including names and dates, try Carroll Quigley's Anglo-American Establishment or his Tragedy and Hope. For a shorter version, try Joe Plummer's Tragedy and Hope 101.

If true, not all is as it appears. But then, in the day and age of propaganda, when is it?

Re: War Is a Racket (1933)

#35

Post by CyanBird »

mrobot wrote: post #29
adventured wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where is major media in the US commonly arguing in favor of a US war with Russia? They're certainly talking about Russia re Ukraine frequently. I've seen a lot of the headlines spilling out of NY Times, WaPo, Fox, MSNBC, et al. and they're not arguing in favor of the US going to war with Russia. That's a very rare argument. Almost exclusively the arguments are about how to respond after Russia invades Ukraine, in ter…

You've completely glossed over the root of it here. The lie that Russia is going to invade Ukraine is the "Saddam has WMDs" Every time the US media talks about an imminent "Russian Invasion", or suggests that they are not the ones instigating the war, they are indirectly instigating war with Russia by lying.

> by lying

And well... By giving far right proxy forces in the Ukraine arms and training, so the proxy forces can then be used for clandestine operations and hopefully (so nato/us/UK think) instigate a Russian military response to which they can scream casius Beli and create more unrest in the entire area

Re: War Is a Racket (1933)

#36

Post by pthread_t »

kerneloftruth wrote: post #6

Succinct and timely as we watch the US media and political class breathlessly try to rally us all to go to war with Russia. Even the Ukrainians aren't as eager and worked-up; NATO, in fact, has not stood up any forces so far. It's insane.

That's not the only war being drummed up:

"Among the members of the global alliance dedicated to destroying the American-led order, Iran is the most vulnerable. The job of the U.S. is to defang it." [0]

"With negotiations likely to fail, [Biden] better be prepared for a military strike [on Iran]." [1]

[0] https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-russia-and-china-build-up-i...

[1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/bidens-moment-of-truth-in-iran-...

Re: War Is a Racket (1933)

#37

Post by CyanBird »

jopsen wrote: post #25
it_does_follow wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that this description of war seems to paint every US military intervention post WWII extremely well. There's also no point in positing counter-factual scenarios regarding WWII. If you want to imagine a world where the US rushed in and "saved" Europe early and prevents Pearl Harbor, you also have to imagine a world where US domestic support for Germany ultimately wins out and we end up supporting them.

True, that said I think it's viable to argue that just defending America at coastline in WWII would likely have led to an undesirable outcome. But yes, colonial conflict before after WWII is probably more of a racket. That said, the cold war didn't stayed cold -- which was nice. Credit NATO (maybe), to be fair NATO is probably also a racket for the military industrial complex (by making countries buy more F35s for ex…

I mean, there is certainly a reason why US has been upset for so long that EU countries haven't been spending enough money on military equipment, these Raytheon ceo and stock bonuses are not gonna appear out of thin air!

Re: War Is a Racket (1933)

#38

Post by beerandt »

fguerraz wrote: post #8
adventured wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where is major media in the US commonly arguing in favor of a US war with Russia? They're certainly talking about Russia re Ukraine frequently. I've seen a lot of the headlines spilling out of NY Times, WaPo, Fox, MSNBC, et al. and they're not arguing in favor of the US going to war with Russia. That's a very rare argument. Almost exclusively the arguments are about how to respond after Russia invades Ukraine, in ter…

It's all about making the war seem unavoidable. Building a common frame of reference that will then be played by media and politics to position the US on the "right side". Do the US media talk about how the US (via NATO) is, and has been for years, provoking Russia? If you find the above outrageous, then the media has done a fine job, and the country is ready to go to war. No need to explicitly argue in favour of it.

>It's all about making the war seem unavoidable

And claiming a political win when we're "miraculously" saved from ww3 by some last minute white house phone call.

Re: War Is a Racket (1933)

#39

Post by rexstjohn »

teluride5 wrote: post #11

This talk from 1933 aged poorly. America's initial lack of intervention in WW2 resulted in Pearl Harbor and German conquest of most of Europe. Smedley Butler can stay forgotten as a footnote in the dusty annals of history.

OP does make interesting point. Why didn’t the capitalists (if they are so powerful) bring America into the war sooner?

This is a very valid point. Maybe worded badly but a perfectly valid thing to point out.

There is a clear contradiction here: In Democracies, public opinion does matter. It isn’t 100% capitalism. The capitalists might be able to get away with some excursions here and there, but when it comes to invading Europe and Japan, public opinion still mattered. The lack of public support was a major factor in why USA did not engage sooner, Pearl Harbor put it over the top definitively.

I didn’t read anything into his speech about being against going to war under all situations.

The Nazi war machine was identical to the group of gangsters outlined in this talk: Integrated capitalist warfare by way of industrialists. His point applies perfectly well to that situation. It’s exactly what happened.

Once one side begins the process, there wasn’t much that could be done, have to respond in kind.

Re: War Is a Racket (1933)

#40

Post by ImprovedSilence »

fuoqi wrote: post #31
emptysongglass wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like to see the Ukrainians be able to determine their own fate: without war. All the numbers say the Ukrainians, by vast majority want their country for themselves, unmolested. What I hear from Western media is deep worry for the fates of these people who have become friends of the EU bloc. I work with Ukrainians daily. I am deeply worried they will be crushed beneath the tank treads of an authoritarian dicta…

Quoted post unavailable.

The Russian propaganda in this thread is strong…
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