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War Is a Racket (1933)

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Re: War Is a Racket (1933)

#21

Post by jopsen »

causality0 wrote: post #16
teluride5 wrote: post #11

This talk from 1933 aged poorly. America's initial lack of intervention in WW2 resulted in Pearl Harbor and German conquest of most of Europe. Smedley Butler can stay forgotten as a footnote in the dusty annals of history.

America's initial lack of intervention in WW2 resulted in Pearl Harbor and German conquest of most of Europe Europe's refusal to follow Wilson's Fourteen Points plan and instead punish Germany as hard as possible is what created WW2 in the first place. Exactly how many of Europe's messes was the US supposed to help clean up before saying "No more"? Smedley Butler can stay forgotten as a footnote in the dusty annals o…

> how many of Europe's messes was the US supposed to help clean up before saying "No more"?

Personally, I'd like to just say thanks!

And hope you stick around to prevent us creating a new mess.. I think we'll be happy to purchase a few useless F35s in exchange :)

Re: War Is a Racket (1933)

#22

Post by teluride5 »

causality0 wrote: post #16
teluride5 wrote: post #11

This talk from 1933 aged poorly. America's initial lack of intervention in WW2 resulted in Pearl Harbor and German conquest of most of Europe. Smedley Butler can stay forgotten as a footnote in the dusty annals of history.

America's initial lack of intervention in WW2 resulted in Pearl Harbor and German conquest of most of Europe Europe's refusal to follow Wilson's Fourteen Points plan and instead punish Germany as hard as possible is what created WW2 in the first place. Exactly how many of Europe's messes was the US supposed to help clean up before saying "No more"? Smedley Butler can stay forgotten as a footnote in the dusty annals o…

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Re: War Is a Racket (1933)

#23

Post by hn8788 »

agumonkey wrote: post #5

I wonder how famous is this piece. It's often reposted but do higher-ups think the same ?

I think some of it is still relevant, like all the money being wasted buying unnecessary equipment during war time. From what I read in memoires written by generals that retired more recently, they probably wouldn't agree with the extreme isolationist policy that Smedley Butler advocates.

Re: War Is a Racket (1933)

#25

Post by jopsen »

it_does_follow wrote: post #14
teluride5 wrote: post #11

This talk from 1933 aged poorly. America's initial lack of intervention in WW2 resulted in Pearl Harbor and German conquest of most of Europe. Smedley Butler can stay forgotten as a footnote in the dusty annals of history.

Except that this description of war seems to paint every US military intervention post WWII extremely well. There's also no point in positing counter-factual scenarios regarding WWII. If you want to imagine a world where the US rushed in and "saved" Europe early and prevents Pearl Harbor, you also have to imagine a world where US domestic support for Germany ultimately wins out and we end up supporting them.

True, that said I think it's viable to argue that just defending America at coastline in WWII would likely have led to an undesirable outcome.

But yes, colonial conflict before after WWII is probably more of a racket.

That said, the cold war didn't stayed cold -- which was nice. Credit NATO (maybe), to be fair NATO is probably also a racket for the military industrial complex (by making countries buy more F35s for example).

Re: War Is a Racket (1933)

#26

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

agumonkey wrote: post #5

I wonder how famous is this piece. It's often reposted but do higher-ups think the same ?

What higher ups? Where and when the US military is used is not decided by the military. It's decided by politicians.

This resonated strongly with me when I was a young US Marine but I don't feel the same now. It's one of those pure and simple ideas that's easy to say but the world is not pure and simple.

Re: War Is a Racket (1933)

#27

Post by ahelwer »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #26
agumonkey wrote: post #5

I wonder how famous is this piece. It's often reposted but do higher-ups think the same ?

What higher ups? Where and when the US military is used is not decided by the military. It's decided by politicians. This resonated strongly with me when I was a young US Marine but I don't feel the same now. It's one of those pure and simple ideas that's easy to say but the world is not pure and simple.

There’s a clear feedback loop between the military and the politicians, it is absolutely not a one-way street of control. This is the entire premise of the term military-industrial complex. Military will always advocate for itself to get more funding and more use (as in, bombing things). And it will continue to serve as a successful launching point for political careers. Not to mention all the companies, fat off of defense contracts, that heavily lobby the government same as any large corporation.

Re: War Is a Racket (1933)

#29

Post by mrobot »

adventured wrote: post #7
kerneloftruth wrote: post #6

Succinct and timely as we watch the US media and political class breathlessly try to rally us all to go to war with Russia. Even the Ukrainians aren't as eager and worked-up; NATO, in fact, has not stood up any forces so far. It's insane.

Where is major media in the US commonly arguing in favor of a US war with Russia? They're certainly talking about Russia re Ukraine frequently. I've seen a lot of the headlines spilling out of NY Times, WaPo, Fox, MSNBC, et al. and they're not arguing in favor of the US going to war with Russia. That's a very rare argument. Almost exclusively the arguments are about how to respond after Russia invades Ukraine, in ter…

You've completely glossed over the root of it here. The lie that Russia is going to invade Ukraine is the "Saddam has WMDs"

Every time the US media talks about an imminent "Russian Invasion", or suggests that they are not the ones instigating the war, they are indirectly instigating war with Russia by lying.

Re: War Is a Racket (1933)

#30

Post by hinkley »

jrumbut wrote: post #18
vgb2k18 wrote: post #9

Jocko Podcast with the author is a great listen. https://jockopodcast.com/2021/09/22/300-war-is-a-racket/

The author died in 1940, is this podcast an old recording or is it about a different author?

Y'know, the internet is making it harder and harder to be a necromancer. Everybody knows everybody else's business.
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