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Tell HN: We have a responsibility to speak out against blockchain technologies

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Tell HN: We have a responsibility to speak out against blockchain technologies

#341

Post by koonsolo »

invaliduser wrote: post #52
rschachte wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blockchain is an immutable ledger. Sure there are scams, just like there are on the regular internet, however, I think there is a lot of potential for blockchain. We're in the early phases of it, but there is more to blockchain that just the currency aspect of it.

«We're in the early phases of it» I've been hearing this for years now. How long can something stay in early phases ?

Here's Bill Gates defending "internet" in 1995: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gipL_CEw-fk.

He gets totally annihilated by Letterman. Bill can't even say a single use-case that is better than what already exists.

Re: Tell HN: We have a responsibility to speak out against blockchain technologies

#342

Post by koonsolo »

kkielhofner wrote: post #233
pcthrowaway wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Defi is roughly 2-3 years old, and smart contracts are less than 7. To put it in perspective, when the internet was 7 years old, the world wide web didn't even really exist beyond a concept yet.

Using the internet is a terrible comparison because of the physical and hardware issues at play. The web is an appropriate comparison. The web is a network application on the internet. Blockchain is a network application on the internet. After 13 years the total number of blockchain users is likely less than 100 million worldwide. From 1993-2006 the web grew to a billion users. In 1993 only 8% of US households had a…

You think it's that easy to replace the existing financial system?

Re: Tell HN: We have a responsibility to speak out against blockchain technologies

#343

Post by tim333 »

SCLeo wrote: post #163
dns_snek wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decentralization, privacy, and censorship resistance are indeed goals of blockchain technology and cryptocurrencies. In addition, they also serve as speculative assets. What's fraudulent about that? Cryptocurrencies do in fact provide all of that (not all of them provide all of these guarantees, but some do).

You completely missed my point. Simply put: People use cryptocurrencies as speculative asset while they claim they are using them for decentralization and other properties.

Those things aren't so incompatible. You can hope they'll go up because they have useful properties.

Re: Tell HN: We have a responsibility to speak out against blockchain technologies

#344

Post by kkielhofner »

koonsolo wrote: post #342
kkielhofner wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using the internet is a terrible comparison because of the physical and hardware issues at play. The web is an appropriate comparison. The web is a network application on the internet. Blockchain is a network application on the internet. After 13 years the total number of blockchain users is likely less than 100 million worldwide. From 1993-2006 the web grew to a billion users. In 1993 only 8% of US households had a…

You think it's that easy to replace the existing financial system?

I'm not talking about the financial system - I'm talking about blockchain as a technology platform to do /something/ people actually want or need. The Web, Facebook, Android, etc were all platforms that people embraced (for obvious reasons) - at the rate of 10-35x that of blockchain. Where is the killer app/functionality built on blockchain where the average person walking down the street sees it and says "I NEED THAT"? After 13 years it does not exist and the user adoption numbers very clearly reflect that.

In terms of replacing the financial system - I've been active in this space for a while now. I've been to meetups, events, large confs, etc in addition to the usual online hangouts. The overwhelmingly majority of users interacting with the blockchain don't know or care about "replacing the financial system". You can tell because they can't go 10 seconds without referencing their investment in dollars (how much they made or lost) or "I 100x'd it" or whatever. There are a few true believers who think in terms of "replacing the financial system" but out the 13% of US households that have anything to do with crypto the vast majority of usage is speculative trading. The blockchain to them is just another ticker symbol someone told them about and they click around in a web interface to buy/sell/trade.

We have a historical example of a new and "innovative" consumer financial product - the credit card. The Diners Club Card was introduced in 1950. By 1970 51% of US households had one. I don't have to tell you that is pretty good adoption for a completely different time and era but when something is immediately and obviously useful people adopt it. Always have, always will.

Re: Tell HN: We have a responsibility to speak out against blockchain technologies

#346

Post by tim333 »

zanzibar735 wrote: post #7
unkulunkulu wrote: post #2

My brother is currently working in the field. It brings him good money. Now, really good money. His work is 100% clean per se (infrastructure for mining). I don't feel any moral grounds to say anything to him, he does it for engineering and fun and really actualizes himself. He is my older brother finally creating something meaningful for people and having rightful rewards. He is hidden in the moral waves, harvesting…

I have friends who have made millions from crypto. But every dollar they made is a dollar that someone else paid into the system, that that person is going to lose when the bubble bursts. Enabling that loss is not morally clean.

Assuming the bubble does burst which it may not.

Re: Tell HN: We have a responsibility to speak out against blockchain technologies

#347

Post by exdsq »

thrwn_frthr_awy wrote: post #311
exdsq wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Monero is a privacy-focused cryptocurrency. It obfuscates transactions while keeping the technical perks of a decentralized ledger.

Thank you. Would it correct to compare it to using cash in person, but online?

Yes! It’s a currency that’s probably closest to peoples intuitive ideas of what a cryptocurrency is. It absolutely can be used for criminal transactions but people who are very pro-privacy also argue for it.

Re: Tell HN: We have a responsibility to speak out against blockchain technologies

#348

Post by thisisbrians »

thrwn_frthr_awy wrote: post #257
thisisbrians wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite example of late is http://royal.io . You can purchase a token (NFT) that represents fractional ownership in the licensing rights of a musician's song or album, and also comes along with other perks (such as free or discounted merch and concert tickets). The proceeds from the NFT sales help fund the artist's project, and then you participate in the upside by receiving a share of royalties for holding the t…

Thanks for the reply. Royal looks interesting, but I may be missing why an NFT is needed for this. Fractional ownership was existed for a long time before crypto. What does the part NFT provide?

Where else can you go purchase the rights to the work of an artist you like as a consumer?

Re: Tell HN: We have a responsibility to speak out against blockchain technologies

#349

Post by bradnickel »

Wow, what a load of anti-analytical sensationalist crap from someone that obviously hasn't spent any real time in the ecosystem to see what is actually happening. The fact that more people are paying attention to this is a statement of ignorance rather than actual thoughtful discussion.

Re: Tell HN: We have a responsibility to speak out against blockchain technologies

#350

Post by thisisbrians »

scott_s wrote: post #277
thisisbrians wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite example of late is http://royal.io . You can purchase a token (NFT) that represents fractional ownership in the licensing rights of a musician's song or album, and also comes along with other perks (such as free or discounted merch and concert tickets). The proceeds from the NFT sales help fund the artist's project, and then you participate in the upside by receiving a share of royalties for holding the t…

You’ve described a share in a private company. Not only do you not need an NFT for that, using an NFT provides you no additional guarantees.

Please point me to a musician who has created a private company and sold shares in order to compensate investors for royalties from their work.
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