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Rebranding FLoC Without Addressing Key Privacy Issues

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Re: Rebranding FLoC Without Addressing Key Privacy Issues

#21
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I recall the phrase was originally a comment from a new employee who had previously worked in the hardware industry. Still baffled by the ambiguous name given to this secretive, exploitive set of companies, "tech". What the heck is it. Its everything and nothing, IMO. A cover. The company is an intermediary, what many in other industries refer to as a "middleman". HN commenters have tried to attack this term in th…

Paul B worked at Intel before Google. He never worked in telecoms. Incidentally he was moderately active here in the FriendFeed days. Tech means technology. Nothing ambiguous about it.

Thanks for the correction.

Re: Rebranding FLoC Without Addressing Key Privacy Issues

#22
This is Google extending an invite to the EU and other regulators to bring their war hammers and forever ban browser makers from pushing targeted ads and enabling profiling of people. Maybe break Google up and make the Google Chrome team a separate company with restrictions on how much it can work hand-in-hand with Google? Anyone in the EU who can file complaints about these abuses of market power?

Tell the people you know to switch from Google Chrome to another browser as their primary one. Google will still pester them on Google’s online properties to install Chrome, and may resort to other tricks on Android. But we are at a time when this can gather momentum and result in some good for all in the future (not mainly for Google, as it seems to be now).

Re: Rebranding FLoC Without Addressing Key Privacy Issues

#23
post #12

Use a different browser that’s not chrome. Problem solved. Disclaimer: I don’t use Brave because I don’t want to see more ads. In the 90s, there were little banner ads that ran on your pc in the same app that helped you connect to the internet. That’s essentially what Brave is, except I don’t NEED to see more ads, as I needed to pay for internet in the early days. Just us a browser that blocks cookies.

> In the 90s, there were little banner ads that ran on your pc in the same app that helped you connect to the internet.

NetZero & Juno, the good ol’ days of free dialup!

Re: Rebranding FLoC Without Addressing Key Privacy Issues

#24
Here is one way to disable "FLoC"

chrome://settings/privacySandbox

Evolution from FLoC

FLoC ended its experiment in July of 2021. We've received valuable feedback from the community^1 and integrated it into the Topics API design. A highlight of the changes, and why they were made, are listed below:

FLoC didn't actually use Federated learning, so why was it named Federated Learning of Cohorts?

This is true. The intent had been to integrate federated learning into FLOC but we found that on-device computation offered enough utility and better privacy.

FLoC added too much fingerprinting data to the ecosystem

The Topics API significantly reduces the amount of cross-site identifiable information. The coarseness of the topics makes each topic a very weak signal; different sites receiving different topics further dilutes its utility for fingerprinting.

Stakeholders wanted the API to provide more user transparency

The Topics API uses a human-readable taxonomy which allows users to recognize which topics are being sent (e.g., in UX).

Stakeholders wanted the API to provide more user controls

With a topic taxonomy, browsers can offer a way (though browser UX may vary) for users to control which topics they want to include

The Topics API will have a user opt-out mechanism

FLoC cohorts might be sensitive

FLoC cohorts had unknown meaning. The Topics API, unlike FLoC, exposes a curated list of topics that are chosen to avoid sensitive topics. It may be possible that topics, or groups of topics, are statistically correlatable with sensitive categories. This is not ideal, but it's a statistical inference and considerably less than what can be learned from cookies (e.g., cross-site user identifier and full-context of the visited sites which includes the full url and the contents of the pages).

FLoC shouldn't automatically include browsing activity from sites with ads on them (as FLoC did in its initial experiment)

To be eligible for generating users' topics, sites wil have to use the API.

https://github.com/jkarlin/topics

It is remarkable to me that Google can freely experiment on whomever they wish. If the experiments demonstrate negative effects, e.g., generation of execssive amounts of fingerprinting, it's unfortunate for those who were swept up in these "experiments".

Why not ask users if they want to volunteer to particpate in a trial/experiment.

Imagine if drug companies did not obtain permission to test their compounds on new patients. Instead they just substituted the new drug into what they sold on the market. Same label. Chrome is Chrome, right. Nevermind all the undisclosed variations and experiments. For example, "field trials" identified by only a number. This is hardly informed disclosure and consent.

1. This is amusing. What users were solicited for feedback. Perhaps they are referring to some surveillance they conducted, looking for mentions of FLoC.

Re: Rebranding FLoC Without Addressing Key Privacy Issues

#25
post #12

Use a different browser that’s not chrome. Problem solved. Disclaimer: I don’t use Brave because I don’t want to see more ads. In the 90s, there were little banner ads that ran on your pc in the same app that helped you connect to the internet. That’s essentially what Brave is, except I don’t NEED to see more ads, as I needed to pay for internet in the early days. Just us a browser that blocks cookies.

How are you seeing ads in Brave? I don't see anything. I believe you have to turn them on, no?

Re: Rebranding FLoC Without Addressing Key Privacy Issues

#26

This is Google extending an invite to the EU and other regulators to bring their war hammers and forever ban browser makers from pushing targeted ads and enabling profiling of people. Maybe break Google up and make the Google Chrome team a separate company with restrictions on how much it can work hand-in-hand with Google? Anyone in the EU who can file complaints about these abuses of market power? Tell the people yo…

How can the EU break up a US company?

Re: Rebranding FLoC Without Addressing Key Privacy Issues

#27
post #4

This comes from the people distributing an ad-fuelled cryptocurrency called "Basic Attention Token". I'll take their word with two grains of salt and a tall glass of water, please.

They aren't forcing it on you. It's opt-in. Google's trying to force things on all their users: manifest V3, this, et cetera.

The brave-hate meme is self perpetuating at this point. Brave is privacy-oriented out of the box. You have to opt in for the ads and crypto. Isn't that what everyone has been asking for? opt-in instead of opt-out? I'm convinced that Google is behind a smear campaign against Brave. If Brave got real traction it could be a serious threat to their business.

Re: Rebranding FLoC Without Addressing Key Privacy Issues

#28
post #4

This comes from the people distributing an ad-fuelled cryptocurrency called "Basic Attention Token". I'll take their word with two grains of salt and a tall glass of water, please.

At least you get paid for having your privacy treated as a commodity. If these people are selling indentured labor, then google is straight up promoting slavery. Brave is obviously the lesser evil.

How is it evil at all if it's opt-in?

Re: Rebranding FLoC Without Addressing Key Privacy Issues

#29
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FLoC has nothing to do with rendering and can easily be removed from the codebase. People make this argument a lot but I don't think it makes logical sense. We all use libicu too, what does that ultimately matter?

Rendering engine diversity is a different problem. In order to actually have a web standard , then we need at least two frequently-used implementations. If there is only one implementation, or one dominant implementation, then people stop coding to the spec and start coding to whatever works in browser.[0] Right now, if Mozilla goes bust, then the last hope for web standards is the fact that Apple's mobile OS rules p…

> where bugs in one implementation effectively become part of the spec.

Isn't this basically how HTML5's parsing rules came out, except instead of bugs in one implementation it is based on bugs on all implementations? :-P

Re: Rebranding FLoC Without Addressing Key Privacy Issues

#30
post #12

Use a different browser that’s not chrome. Problem solved. Disclaimer: I don’t use Brave because I don’t want to see more ads. In the 90s, there were little banner ads that ran on your pc in the same app that helped you connect to the internet. That’s essentially what Brave is, except I don’t NEED to see more ads, as I needed to pay for internet in the early days. Just us a browser that blocks cookies.

How are you seeing ads in Brave? I don't see anything. I believe you have to turn them on, no?

> How are you seeing ads in Brave

I don’t, I’ve never used Brave.

From https://brave.com/brave-rewards/

   Brave Ads do not replace current web page ads. By default, Brave blocks privacy-invading web ads and trackers that are embedded in page content. Joining Brave Rewards and viewing Brave Ads does not affect your current blocking settings for each website you visit. The ads you see as part of Brave Rewards are shown separately from your browsing experience and are not the same as the invasive, performance-sapping ads embedded in websites.
But I can already block ads with uMatrix and other ad blockers. So why do I need another browser that does essentially the same, but adds more complexity to the mix, potentially more browser bloat? So instead of funneling ad spend to google, it’s funneled to Brave - but that doesn’t really make a difference to me as a consumer. I can donate or buy products of creators I want to support w/o dealing in BAT.
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