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Tell HN: We have a responsibility to speak out against blockchain technologies

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Tell HN: We have a responsibility to speak out against blockchain technologies

#231

Post by opportune »

jonwalch wrote: post #18

I find it strange that people keep promoting that YouTube documentary. Ignoring tone issues, there is a lot of cherry picking and other logical fallacies. For example, he talks about how terrible Tether is and then completely ignores USDC. He also claims that none of the popular blockchains can scale, but Solana is frequently in the top 5 most popular cryptocurrencies. It seems to me that people that do an hour of re…

Solans is centralized. The fact devs can take it down for maintenance or that it can be trivially ddosed is proof it is not nearly as decentralized or robust as cryptos promise.

Re: Tell HN: We have a responsibility to speak out against blockchain technologies

#232

Post by mike741 »

This reminds me of the stories about Edison electrocuting elephants as a means of demonstrating the "danger" of alternating current.

Bad Application =/= Bad Technology

Most telephone calls are scam calls, it doesn't mean telephones were a bad idea. All scammers are humans, but not all humans are scammers. If there is a scam then call it out directly rather than wasting energy on the general platform.

Re: Tell HN: We have a responsibility to speak out against blockchain technologies

#233

Post by kkielhofner »

pcthrowaway wrote: post #72
invaliduser wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

«We're in the early phases of it» I've been hearing this for years now. How long can something stay in early phases ?

Defi is roughly 2-3 years old, and smart contracts are less than 7. To put it in perspective, when the internet was 7 years old, the world wide web didn't even really exist beyond a concept yet.

Using the internet is a terrible comparison because of the physical and hardware issues at play. The web is an appropriate comparison.

The web is a network application on the internet.

Blockchain is a network application on the internet.

After 13 years the total number of blockchain users is likely less than 100 million worldwide. From 1993-2006 the web grew to a billion users. In 1993 only 8% of US households had a computer with a modem…

Considering the web, mobile, and social media that blockchain has been able to leverage over the past 13 years it should have at least 20X the number of users.

Blockchain user adoption has been a complete failure up to this point.

I wrote a rant about this earlier this week:

https://blog.cryptostars.is/blockchain-the-most-poorly-adopt...

Re: Tell HN: We have a responsibility to speak out against blockchain technologies

#235

Post by andrecarini »

sudosysgen wrote: post #67
ohazi wrote: post #32

Like many people back then, I also found the whole proof-of-work / blockchain concept to be interesting from a theoretical computer science / distributed systems perspective. But these days, I can't help but think that we've inadvertently created a paperclip maximizer without even bothering to create an AGI first. Humans are the AGI, and we're going to happily use more and more energy to play this stupid game for as…

Capital in general is a paperclip maximizer, not just Bitcoin. All investors are slaves to their capital that takes a mind of its own, a sort of real-world Egregore. Bitcoin is a flagrant example of this property of capital.

People in general are paperclip maximizers, not just Capital. All people are slaves to their desires that takes a mind of its own, a sort of real-world Incentives System.

Chasing power (be it financial, social, political) is a flagrant example of this property of People.

TL;DR: The problem isn't capital. It's humanity as a whole.

Re: Tell HN: We have a responsibility to speak out against blockchain technologies

#236

Post by 2pEXgD0fZ5cF »

RedBeetDeadpool wrote: post #178
adam_arthur wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The intrinsic value of pokemon is the enjoyment you get out of playing. Thus people are willing to pay money to play it. "Investments" in crypto tend to have value because you can sell it to somebody else for more, not because the intrinsic value increases over time. E.g. like a cashflowing business increasing their cashflow, or raising rents on a rental property. This is self referential, people aren't paying more b…

People buy expensive art because its popular. They also do nothing but stare at it every once in a while. Is that intrinsic value? Because if that is, then so is crypto.

> People buy expensive art because its popular.

Let's say I can magically create thousands of copies of the mona lisa, perfect 100% copies of the original at the Louvre with no method known to man now or in the future to distinguish them.

Now imagine that I shuffle those 100% perfect copies with the original and distribute them all across the world in galleries, auction houses, museums, some universities etc. (basically any facilities with a chance to have access to people with the ability to notice that this might be the original painting).

Assuming that the experts trying to find the original now that it is gone from the Louvre are honest and don't lie:

Do you believe the Mona Lisa would still retain its value assessment?

Re: Tell HN: We have a responsibility to speak out against blockchain technologies

#237

Post by dimgl »

ars wrote: post #80

I don't think you realize just how much these technologies benefit people in countries with poor currencies. You need to address this before painting with such a broad brush.

I love seeing this argument. You should really visit these countries.

Crypto does not help these countries whatsoever.

Re: Tell HN: We have a responsibility to speak out against blockchain technologies

#238

Post by zamalek »

ohazi wrote: post #32

Like many people back then, I also found the whole proof-of-work / blockchain concept to be interesting from a theoretical computer science / distributed systems perspective. But these days, I can't help but think that we've inadvertently created a paperclip maximizer without even bothering to create an AGI first. Humans are the AGI, and we're going to happily use more and more energy to play this stupid game for as…

> we need to find a way to change the incentives globally.

We are spitting distance from post-scarcity in the developed world. The problem is that we are addicted to power and status (which both feed on scarcity).

Re: Tell HN: We have a responsibility to speak out against blockchain technologies

#239

Post by 2pEXgD0fZ5cF »

RedBeetDeadpool wrote: post #175
adam_arthur wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto so far is largely a vast space with little intrinsic value. The "technological veil" over it seems to confer more legitimacy to crypto projects than is really warranted. E.g. people buying land in the "metaverse", which is really just some hastily implemented crap game/mmo. Less technical people aren't going to understand that the perfectly legitimate technology is a ruse covering up illegitimate investment id…

> Crypto so far is largely a vast space with little intrinsic value. So was pokemon. By my definition that's a crap game even without crypto. But millions of people have fun playing it and its a big part of their lives, so who am I to judge?

> By my definition that's a crap game

Even in the context of the original game release in 1996?

> But millions of people have fun playing it and its a big part of their lives

Yes and all they have to do for that is buy one of the many Pokemon games between 1996 and 2021 and start playing and enjoying the game for whatever it is they get out of it, be it story, gameplay, collecting or PvP.

Now where is the connection to cryptocurrencies and NFTs? Could you be specific?

Re: Tell HN: We have a responsibility to speak out against blockchain technologies

#240

Post by mike741 »

awild wrote: post #30
gtsop wrote: post #20

I really don't follow. Can anyone enlighten me? I used to go with the casual notion 'tech isn't evil' / 'even a chair can be used as a weapon'. What have I missed here for blockchain?

A chair's proof of concept doesn't burn the energy of a small industrialized nation?

Computers as a whole burn the energy of many small industrialized nations. Is that to say computers shouldn't be used? Or is it simply a statement of how widely used computers are?
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