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Why Quantum Mechanics?

scottaaronson.blog

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Re: Why Quantum Mechanics?

#221

I've always liked these kinds of questions. Myself, I always wondered why specifically three dimensions. (Please don't start telling me about string theory.)

Seems like part of the question is missing. Why specifically three dimensions of what? Dimension means: a measurable aspect of something; and it's a conceptual tool we use for things. If we're talking space (defined as a continuous area or expanse which is free, available, or unoccupied), we can define and measure length, width, height. So 3 dimensions. If we're talking area, 2 dimensions. If we're talking universe, we can measure aspects of other phenomenon (such as relative movement of objects). You could combine it with space, and could say we live in a 4 dimensional universe, 3 comprising space, 1 time... and call it: spacetime. Do 4 dimensions accurately model all that's observable in the universe? That depends on what you consider as the necessary aspects that make up the universe.

Anyhow, in short, why 3 dimensions? Because it can be modeled that way and seemingly makes for a good model.

Re: Why Quantum Mechanics?

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does a^2+b^2=c^2 for a right triangle? It's just axiomatic, right? Not exactly. It's only true in flat euclidean geometry. If General Relativity holds then we're only in a flat spacetime if the total energy content of the universe is in some range of values, otherwise the universe could be the 3d equivalent of a sphere or it could be a hyperbolic shape. In neither of these configurations do right triangles behave…

>Why does a^2+b^2=c^2 for a right triangle? It's just axiomatic, right? Pythagorean theorem is not an axiom. It's a theorem. >Not exactly. It's only true in flat euclidean geometry It's a theorem for Euclidean geometry. >So a^2+b^2=c^2 if and only if the big bang happened to have some particular initial conditions. It's not axiomatic, and studying _if it's even true_ tells you a lot more than you'd expect. For theore…

> The other weird thing that we don't understand, and this is likely connected with logic is probability. We don't know why it works.

Can you elaborate on this or provide further reading?

Re: Why Quantum Mechanics?

#223

Im just taking the easy course of QM by Suesskind. He had an example like you have two coins and give them randomy to your kids. The they move far away. Then one kid discovers what it got, it knows what the other has. So what I dont get is why QM you could argue that there is some hidden shared state. Guess this is a typical question. But anyway I‘m somehow not convinced that it is really random.

Suppose you were asked to build a device that works as follows.

1. It consists of a base unit and to hand-held units that can dock in the base unit.

2. Each hand-held unit has a counter, a button labeled "A", a red light, and a green light. The counter initially reads 0. The base has a button labeled "Reset".

3. If you put both hand-held units in the docks in the base and press "Reset", the counters in the hand-held units are set to 1000.

4. If you press the "A" button on a hand-held unit nothing visible happens if the counter is 0. If the counter is greater than 0, exactly one of the lights flashes briefly, and the counter goes down by 1.

5. If someone records the results of a large number of presses of the "A" button on one of the hand-held devices, every statistical test they can device will be consistent with the probability of getting the red light being 0.5. As far as they can tell it is completely random what color they get. This is true both within a run of 1000 presses after a reset, and across resets.

6. If two people compare their result from a run of 1000 "A" presses of two hand-held units that were last reset together, their results are identical. I.e., if person 1 got red on one of the units when the counter was 1000, blue for 999, red for 998, 997, and blue for 996, then so did person 2 on the other unit.

It would be pretty easy to build such a device. The hand-held units could simply have 1000 bits of storage. When the base unit resets them it merely has to generate 1000 random bits using a true random number generator and store that random bit sequence in both units. The units use that sequence to choose the light color when the "A" button is pressed.

Now suppose we want a more elaborate device. Same basic setup with the base and the two hand-held units, but now the units have three buttons, "A", "B", and "C". Still two lights, red and green. Pressing any button gives you a short light flash and decrements the counter.

Like with the single button device, if you play with one of the hand-held units alone every test you can think of is consistent with the light color being entirely random, with red and green equally likely.

If you record the results of your 1000 presses, and compare results with someone else doing the same with a unit that was reset when yours was, we want to see these results:

1. When you just look at your results, every statistical test you can device is consistent with it being completely random what color you get with the two colors being equally likely.

2. When you two pressed the same button with the same counter value, you find that you got the same color on your two units 100% of the time.

3. When one of you pressed "A" and one "C" with the same counter values, you find that you got the same color on your two units 50% of the time. It seems to be completely random whether or not you got the same color or different colors.

4. When one of you pressed B" and one of you pressed "A" or "C" with the same counter value, you get the same color 85% of the time. It seems to be completely random whether or not you got the same or different colors, but instead of being 50/50 like in #3, it is 85/15 for same color.

You might think this device could be built with just minor changes to the earlier "A" only device. Just expand the storage from 1000 bits to 3000 bits so it can have a table for each button saying what color to flash if that button is pressed for any particular counter value. That base can download values that give the desired distribution.

But when you try to actually figure out those tables you will run into a problem. You will find that you cannot devise values that will actually give the right distribution unless you know ahead of time which sequence the users are going to choose for their button pushes. If the users are free to decide which button to press for each of the 1000 rounds and they don't have to decide until after the tables have been initialized, there will always be sequences they can press that those tables won't give the right distribution for.

You will find that the only way, if you limit yourself to pre-quantum physics, to make the units actually work is to include some kind of communications channel between the units so that whichever unit gets a button pressed first for a given counter value can tell the other what it choose and the other can then adjust its response to make sure the right distribution happens.

That could work, but then you would have a limitation that your units only work according to spec if they are close enough together when the buttons are pressed for them to get a message from the first one pressed to the second one before it is pressed.

If two people took a pair of units, reset them together, separated them by say a light-hour, and then started pressing their buttons at the same time the devices would not be able to give the right correlations.

You can make the devices work, but instead of making your table use regular bits, you need to use a table of qubits. Use 1000 qubits in each device, with the qubit in each hand-held unit for counter value N entangled with the corresponding cubit in the other device. A button press measures the value of the qubit, with each button corresponding to a measurement in a different basis. With the right choice of basis for each button, you get the correlations given in the spec, and it works no matter how far apart the units are.

As far as I know nobody has built the specific devices described above, but there have been experiments done with entangled qubits or entangled particles that show that they do work that way yielding those correlations when measured in different bases, and that this works even if they are very far apart, so you could definitely build the devices described above.

Re: Why Quantum Mechanics?

#224
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you misunderstand the post, he's not arguing against QM in any way at all, this isn't QM denial. He's just asking _why_ the universe is built that way.

You need something like QM to explain chemistry. And you need chemistry to explain life. To make a comparison, the laws that determine the movement of celestial bodies are closer to classical physics. There is no order in these bodies: galaxies all look very different. But molecules all look very similar, thanks to QM. You need this property for life to exist (you need e.g. replication, which can only happen if thing…

There isn’t one. I’ll say it again, he isn’t doubting QM. That isn’t what this is about.

Re: Why Quantum Mechanics?

#225
post #2

Q1: because that wouldn't be consistent with simulation. Q2: because that's how the simulator works. Joking aside, I wonder if there's some principle that: physics will always look like you'd expect it to look if it's a simulation. Perhaps that's what Yang-Mills Gauge Theory is about?

I'm the type of person that likes to visualise the space of all possible theories of everything like a surface. A table, let's say. I like to imagine placing similar theories together, like stacking papers. Likely candidates closer to the middle of the table, fringe theories physically further away, under a pile of other junk. I've never been able to mentally put the "we're in a simulation" paper away. It's always be…

The problem is that it doesn't explain anything, and so it might not be a theory.

For instance, what is the simulation in? Is not being in a simulation even possible?

Btw, I recommend reading Permutation City.

Re: Why Quantum Mechanics?

#226
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why physicists are so opposed to super determinism because like you say it would make life 'utterly meaningless' (I dont agree, a bit dramatic). Super determinism is the unpopular answer that solves many problems in quantum mechanics and relativity. It also makes a lot of sense if you think of the universe as pre-rendered, just like you would a CGI movie. Determine where all the particles land upfront througho…

But superdeterminism in the sense that Scott uses it doesn't just mean life is completely predetermined (I think that would be a fairly unobjectionable theory), it means that specifically the whole universe is predetermined in a way that just happens to cause human experimenters to choose measurement settings that accidentally reproduce the the values predicted by Bell's inequality. It's that mind-blowingly unlikely…

It's true that he uses it that way, but I think Sabine claims that's not the case and her theory is actually different. Other people with similar theories call it "retrocausal".

Scott doesn't believe it's possible for them to be different though.

Re: Why Quantum Mechanics?

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why does a^2+b^2=c^2 for a right triangle? It's just axiomatic, right? Pythagorean theorem is not an axiom. It's a theorem. >Not exactly. It's only true in flat euclidean geometry It's a theorem for Euclidean geometry. >So a^2+b^2=c^2 if and only if the big bang happened to have some particular initial conditions. It's not axiomatic, and studying _if it's even true_ tells you a lot more than you'd expect. For theore…

> The other weird thing that we don't understand, and this is likely connected with logic is probability. We don't know why it works. Can you elaborate on this or provide further reading?

Probability theory is just a bunch of theorems and axioms, it's a logical game we play just like graph theory or any other mathematical theory. If we roll a dice many times the dice follows a probability distribution. We don't know why this occurs in reality. Or in other words we don't know why this random mathematical theory some how is applicable to repeatedly observing a "random" process many times. We're not even sure what "random" is as we can't even formally define a random function in a computer.

Probability seems like it's connected to logic. For example "if A then B" is a statement that is part of logic. But if you say "if A then 40% chance of B" then the statement is still logical but you can now see the connection with probability.

It could be probability is the foundation of all causal connections and the logic itself is just a a special case of: "if A then 100% chance of B." But the weird part it, probability theory itself is built upon logic. You can't have probability as a formal mathematical theory without logic to derive theorems from axioms.

Re: Why Quantum Mechanics?

#228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm the type of person that likes to visualise the space of all possible theories of everything like a surface. A table, let's say. I like to imagine placing similar theories together, like stacking papers. Likely candidates closer to the middle of the table, fringe theories physically further away, under a pile of other junk. I've never been able to mentally put the "we're in a simulation" paper away. It's always be…

The problem is that it doesn't explain anything, and so it might not be a theory. For instance, what is the simulation in? Is not being in a simulation even possible? Btw, I recommend reading Permutation City.

I've already read through most of Greg Egan's works, but it's good to see like-minded people out in the wild!

Simulations can have explanatory power and can potentially have falsifiable predictions.

One prediction of a simulated universe is that any such computer would be built on a budget. As in, you'd expect all aspects of the the compute substrate to have finite "limits" that manifest at the extremes of the simulation. For example:

1. Finite resolution -- Plank length.

2. Finite information propagation speed due to simple "update next cell based on neighbouring cells" simulation -- Special Relativity.

3. Finite (maximum) information density -- black holes.

4. Finite precision -- particle decay, "inherent randomness", etc...

You can even explain General Relativity by saying that simulation chunks that are busy due to highly complex content fail to fully update their state and hence fall behind, appearing to have a slower progression of time. Neighbouring cells also need to "check" the state of the busy cells, and hence they're slowed down a bit also, which explains field curvature.

Etc...

Re: Why Quantum Mechanics?

#230
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really interesting to read your post, despite half of it being a bit over my head. That is quite cool you got to have a long conversation with Penrose! As to your statement about platonism or mathematical realism, I'm curious about something. Surely most axiomatic systems are a choice, so I can understand why we would say they're man made (euclidean geometry, ZFC, etc). However we also know about 'meta axioms', which…

I am not sure what is a "meta axiom". Could you give an example for one?

The rules of propositional logic (or first-order logic) would seem to fit: i.e. that fact that "A and B" has the same truth-value as "B and A", or the use of modus ponens as a deduction rule. These rules are usually left out of axiomatic descriptions of mathematical fields.
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