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Tell HN: We have a responsibility to speak out against blockchain technologies

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Re: Tell HN: We have a responsibility to speak out against blockchain technologies

#41
post #16

I mean I graduated top 5% of my class and make early 6 figures. My friend who graduated bottom 5% is now a crypto millionaire living in Dubai. Meanwhile I can write complex Scala code but I have no idea what blockchain , NFT , crypto is all about apart from the fact that it made my friend rich and made early adopters rich . How , why , when I don’t know . What’s the gain, purpose of it - I don’t know . Then again I d…

survivorship bias?

You're implying that other people have lost the equivalent amount of money. But the net effect is not zero. The society is losing badly if everyone is just playing in a casino.

Re: Tell HN: We have a responsibility to speak out against blockchain technologies

#43
DLTs are not the problem. The problem is idiocracy. Most people don't think anymore. Some people even buy NFTs thinking ownership right come with those - not even asking legal questions...

DLTs can indeed be incredibly useful, e.g. when multiple parties use the tech as a trusted pseudonymous data log, e.g. drug tracking from production to pharmacies. Or decentralized certificate wallets which allow you to actually own certificates you earned and prove that those are valid.

Those are just not the stories media can sell as good as "some stupid link to an ape / rock picture has been sold for x gazillion USD".

Re: Tell HN: We have a responsibility to speak out against blockchain technologies

#44

My brother is currently working in the field. It brings him good money. Now, really good money. His work is 100% clean per se (infrastructure for mining). I don't feel any moral grounds to say anything to him, he does it for engineering and fun and really actualizes himself. He is my older brother finally creating something meaningful for people and having rightful rewards. He is hidden in the moral waves, harvesting…

I have friends who have made millions from crypto. But every dollar they made is a dollar that someone else paid into the system, that that person is going to lose when the bubble bursts. Enabling that loss is not morally clean.

are you okay with trading precious metals? stocks? real estate?

all of those have so-called market cycles, which is what you described here. the price continues to increase (bull market), as each trader sells higher to another sucker, who wants to sell higher to another sucker... until eventually it runs out of new suckers and the price collapses for some time (bear market). each dollar you gain is a dollar someone else loses. those suckers at the end of the bullrun transfered their money to earlier suckers and lost everything.

the "ponzi" nature of crypto isnt specific to crypto at all - this is how all markets operate.

Re: Tell HN: We have a responsibility to speak out against blockchain technologies

#45
post #16

I mean I graduated top 5% of my class and make early 6 figures. My friend who graduated bottom 5% is now a crypto millionaire living in Dubai. Meanwhile I can write complex Scala code but I have no idea what blockchain , NFT , crypto is all about apart from the fact that it made my friend rich and made early adopters rich . How , why , when I don’t know . What’s the gain, purpose of it - I don’t know . Then again I d…

If you had millions why would you pick Dubai to live in?

Re: Tell HN: We have a responsibility to speak out against blockchain technologies

#46
post #6

Alright, go for it. Speak out all you want. Cryptocurrency users will continue ignoring and/or deriding you. Telling people that you don't like what they're doing is not an effective way to modify their behavior. You need to provide competing incentives, and somehow I doubt y'all are up to that.

I don’t think OP was advocating telling cryptocurrency users that it’s a scam.

I think it was more aimed at people thinking of getting into cryptocurrency.

For what it’s worth, I mined BTC when you could profitably with a GPU. I mine ETH today using gminer on flexpool.io. I actually made money on DOGE and several other alt coins.

I’ve spent years studying cryptocurrency. I don’t get it. I think it’s a scam too and I believe the world would be better off had it never been invented.

Re: Tell HN: We have a responsibility to speak out against blockchain technologies

#47
I think the best we can do is give our opinion when asked questions like

"Hey you know about these things. Is web3 the next evolution of the internet and should I buy in?"

"No and no"

"You're just mad because you missed out"

"Here's a collection of material I've been saving that says I'm right. You might want to take a look before you invest"

"You sound negative"

"Ok, consider me the 10th man then. Ignore me if you want"

And just leave it at that. You can lead a horse to water...

https://themindcollection.com/the-tenth-man-rule-devils-advo...

Re: Tell HN: We have a responsibility to speak out against blockchain technologies

#48
post #38
post #20

I really don't follow. Can anyone enlighten me? I used to go with the casual notion 'tech isn't evil' / 'even a chair can be used as a weapon'. What have I missed here for blockchain?

The position of web3 is that we should be using "chairs" to run websites. The infrastructure of crypto is blatantly inappropriate for the domains people are trying to apply it to. Which leaves open the question, why are they pushing for it? The answer should be clear to anyone with a passing knowledge of the crypto scene.

Is this the position of crypto or the position of people driving crypto? I am trying to understand here if there something inherently wrong with the technology or just with the people running it.

Re: Tell HN: We have a responsibility to speak out against blockchain technologies

#49

why? i think it's the coolest thing ever. anyone can write a contract to automate taking out a loan, investing it, and pulling out the money, develop exotic securities, and bespoke arbitration. anyone can do it regardless of credentials or connections; just a month of learning. pretty darn cool to have unbridled access to a distributed computer.

The answer is pretty straight-forward. Every time we tried this before it collapsed into a giant ball of flame.

Nothing crypto is producing is new.

We've had stablecoins before in the form of wildcat banks. [1] They were backed at some point by barrels of nails with a few flakes of gold on top, and what little gold there was, was spirited around from bank to bank in front of the inspectors. That ended predictably.

We've had "ICOs" in the form of blue sky securities. [2] Companies that did nothing sold on the premise that you could simply sell the shares to someone else for more money. That ended predictably.

We've had "high yield investment platforms" in the form of actual honest-to-goodness Ponzi schemes before. That ended predictably.

We've had free reign access to leverage to buy more securities before - it led to the Great Depression. We had rhypothecation of securities and totally baseless collateral generation before - it led to the Great Recession.

Crypto hasn't created anything new fundamentally, it's just re-hashing all the stuff we outlawed before because it was an objective breeding ground of fraud and crime and grift. The only thing new about the crypto economy is that the pitches are structured as "${previously_failed_idea} except on the Internet."

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wildcat_banking

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_sky_law

Re: Tell HN: We have a responsibility to speak out against blockchain technologies

#50
Humans more than any other life form seem to constantly be playing with social, economic and political self-organization. How energy is distributed and what is fair. We’re a highly social almost hive-like species that is constantly trying out new hive patterns and arguing about them.

Crypto is useful because it lets people play with their own schemes and nobody can stop them. It seems like most uses of crypto are for some form of token gated community.

While token gates are a valuable concept, it is true that many communities themselves are not worth joining and are inflating their perceived value.

I do think that the recent spate of critiques are fairly poor also. Critiquing antiques like bitcoin or lolling about say early DAOs falling over due to bugs doesn’t really make a compelling argument.

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