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In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist

nytimes.com

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Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist

#401

Post by pphysch »

the_doctah wrote: post #375
pphysch wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USA was created in the wake of perhaps the largest ethnic cleansing in human history (virtual entirety of the North American continent) and has been at war for >90% of its history. It has always been deeply racist (whether overt like KKK lynchings or subtle like census reporting and tokenism). Whatever these rightoids are allegedly plotting, you can't say they are "remaking" America into something radically new.

How does mid-millenium colonization of America prove current-year racism? This is pure CRT-adjacent nonsense. The use of words like "rightoid" does not help your argument.

Right. Sorry. I'll be more politically correct next time.

Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist

#402

Post by nobody9999 »

dnautics wrote: post #400
nobody9999 wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between classified information and scientific research. Yes, some scientific research could be classified, but unless the government can show "national security implications" (a pretty low bar, IMHO), they should not be restricting the flow of speech or ideas. A general officer in the military is not only covered by the Constitution, but by the UCMJ[0]. As such, your comparison is flawed. We're (…

You act as if I haven't read the constitution. I've pored over the constitution so many times, I'm well versed in obscurities down to the twenty dollar clause and the post roads clause. Can you explain to me how classifying content is not an abridgement of free speech in an absolute reading of the constitution? "Congress shall make no law.." It does not say "Congress shall make no law, unless it's classified" The UCM…

You didn't answer my question. Rather, you moved the goalposts.

Do that and I'll reciprocate.

Have a great day!

Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist

#403

Post by dnautics »

nobody9999 wrote: post #402
dnautics wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You act as if I haven't read the constitution. I've pored over the constitution so many times, I'm well versed in obscurities down to the twenty dollar clause and the post roads clause. Can you explain to me how classifying content is not an abridgement of free speech in an absolute reading of the constitution? "Congress shall make no law.." It does not say "Congress shall make no law, unless it's classified" The UCM…

You didn't answer my question. Rather, you moved the goalposts. Do that and I'll reciprocate. Have a great day!

contract law. done.

Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist

#404

Post by the_doctah »

kragen wrote: post #390
the_doctah wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does mid-millenium colonization of America prove current-year racism? This is pure CRT-adjacent nonsense. The use of words like "rightoid" does not help your argument.

The Trail of Tears, the US Civil War and the appalling form of slavery that led up to it, the Chinese Exclusion Act, racially-biased "eugenic" involuntary sterilization, Jim Crow, the Japanese internment camps, the Indian Schools, Wounded Knee, cowboys & Indians movies, the Tulsa race massacre, per-country immigration quotas, mass deportation, child internment camps, etc., are not mid-millennium colonization. There's…

>one so deeply embedded in US culture that I couldn't see most of it until I had been gone for several years.

Wherever you went, odds are it has an equally shitty history, and present.

Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist

#405

Post by [deleted] »

tasha0663 wrote: post #368
vishnugupta wrote: post #310

This is just such a sad situation. The scientist's reputation has taken a big beating and he will now be looked through the lease of these accusations for rest of his career, if not more. The last paragraph stood out for me. “My love is science. I did not want politics, right? I saw that, and I got away from it. I do my devotion to science. I help people, I support. But I learned that you can’t get away. Politics imp…

> The scientist's reputation has taken a big beating While this really sucked, this is an exaggeration. No charges. Still has his job. He can still file for government grants. The article starts with his colleagues offering up opportunities for him and celebrating that he is back. Yeah, the feds screwed the pooch and messed things up, but I don't see where his reputation was actually harmed.

[deleted]

Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist

#406

Post by ok_dad »

tasha0663 wrote: post #365
ok_dad wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The “none of your business” kind. Why is there a whole thread of this reasoning here? You have read the article, he was totally innocent, and now you’re questioning his “Chinese ties”. I guess he was right in that his image was tarnished permanently. What a sad world that such an accomplished person has been ruined. Imagine the awesome impact he could have had. His research area could have revolutionized many things…

Maybe they updated the article. The archived link suggests they found out that he was not obligated to reveal any such ties. This is subtly different than finding he has none at all.

The "ties" are his own business, in this case. What I'm saying is that a subtle jab about his "ties" is basically tainting him as somehow still guilty to some degree as a Chinese spy, even though all charges were dropped and it was admitted that there was no base to even charge him to begin with. This is the damage that was done to this man's reputation, even though the "ties" could and probably are very benign and normal for his type of work. The continual push to label all things Chinese as evil is today's McCarthyism.

Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist

#407

Post by ska »

tasha0663 wrote: post #368
vishnugupta wrote: post #310

This is just such a sad situation. The scientist's reputation has taken a big beating and he will now be looked through the lease of these accusations for rest of his career, if not more. The last paragraph stood out for me. “My love is science. I did not want politics, right? I saw that, and I got away from it. I do my devotion to science. I help people, I support. But I learned that you can’t get away. Politics imp…

> The scientist's reputation has taken a big beating While this really sucked, this is an exaggeration. No charges. Still has his job. He can still file for government grants. The article starts with his colleagues offering up opportunities for him and celebrating that he is back. Yeah, the feds screwed the pooch and messed things up, but I don't see where his reputation was actually harmed.

I think you are critically underestimating the impact of having your lab fall apart like this. It may not be a career end, but the career is probably irrevocably impacted.

Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist

#408

Post by frankfrankfrank »

kragen wrote: post #249
nonethewiser wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see an equivalent turn of events in the US. Could you share what you mean?

No, nothing equivalent to the Cultural Revolution has happened anywhere else ever. Hopefully it never will.

What is your definition of equivalent? Because I see the French Revolution and it’s Central European offshoots, the Russian revolution, the various Latin American and Asian communist revolutions all very equivalent; they all totally upended and and destroyed an existing culture and whole civilizations. If communistic elements and characteristics are involved, such a situation is equivalent to the Chinese communist “cultural” revolution of destruction by definition. You’re miss-classifying the vector as the cause. One may argue scale, but not equivalency.

Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist

#409

Post by nobody9999 »

dnautics wrote: post #403
nobody9999 wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You didn't answer my question. Rather, you moved the goalposts. Do that and I'll reciprocate. Have a great day!

contract law. done.

>contract law. done.

That doesn't answer my question. Which was:

>Please explain how such narrow circumstances apply in this case? Or, absent those circumstances, under what legal framework would government restrictions on speech apply even to government-funded research? Please do explain. I'd be fascinated to hear it.

Are you advocating that all government-funded research should (or already does) have NDAs associated with them?

That's news to me. Please provide some documentation for your claim.

Yes, Congress has implemented laws that are within the narrow exceptions to the the bar on restriction of speech. How does that apply in this specific case?

What you are claiming/proposing is not the law of the land. What changes to the law/constitution are you proposing?

I await your response with (hopefully) some actual exposition. Based on your previous writings in this thread, I won't hold my breath.

Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist

#410

Post by chasd00 »

MadSudaca wrote: post #231
lucian1900 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean countries that started off much poorer than the US, yet the standard of living drastically improved during the socialist period? Then drastically dropped after 89, when the imperialists won the Cold War? Just because poor countries become socialist doesn't mean socialism makes them poor. Consider that they were kept poor and socialism is the way out.

Socialism makes countries poor. In countries with corrupt governments, poverty is reached markedly faster. If socialist countries don’t become totally destitute, it’s because they manage not to mess up capitalism completely.

"If socialist countries don’t become totally destitute, it’s because they manage not to mess up capitalism completely."

or lucky enough to have a goose laying golden eggs. i.e. the North Sea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sea_oil

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