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Arizona Introduces a bill to make Bitcoin Legal Tender [pdf]

azleg.gov

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Re: Arizona Introduces a bill to make Bitcoin Legal Tender [pdf]

#51

Post by giaour »

posterboy wrote: post #37
ceejayoz wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anything in the constitution is not canonical forever. It is, however, canonical until amended or SCOTUS interprets it away. Constitutionally, it appears quite clear Arizona can't do this currently , and the law as a result would almost certainly be immediately stayed and struck down if passed.

The required interpretation appears readily available. Arizona wouldn't issue anything, but they'll gladly accept it.

"No State shall ... make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts"

Re: Arizona Introduces a bill to make Bitcoin Legal Tender [pdf]

#52

Post by ahoka »

eftychis wrote: post #13
ahoka wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine having to wait ten minutes at the checkout for the transaction to clear.

You use an intermediary that will vouch for you in the meantime — say like a credit card company. Seriously, if it reaches that point, sure maybe Bitcoin is not going to work and we will pick something “new,” but for payment processing it doesn’t matter as intermediaries will pop up as they did for cash. Edit: Disclaimer: I worked and work on that “new” stuff.

But is that really Bitcoin at that point?

Re: Arizona Introduces a bill to make Bitcoin Legal Tender [pdf]

#54

Post by posterboy »

ceejayoz wrote: post #50
posterboy wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The required interpretation appears readily available. Arizona wouldn't issue anything, but they'll gladly accept it.

It says states can't make something legal tender. Nothing about acceptance. Arizona can accept Bitcoin all they like. They cannot make it legal tender in Arizona.

So, they'd have to print it in gold. Still an option at the worth of it currently.

Re: Arizona Introduces a bill to make Bitcoin Legal Tender [pdf]

#55

Post by belval »

saxonww wrote: post #6

Don't get too riled up about this. "Arizona" introduced nothing. State Senator Rogers did. It's probably not going to make it out of committee in the AZ legislature. I'd be surprised if anyone took it seriously. Edit: maybe someone knowledgeable can chime in; I don't think states can even do this. The US Government determines what is legal tender in the US.

I wonder if it's a pump and dump scheme? Buy BTC, introduce bill (even if it's not going anywhere), wait for it to make the news, sell your BTC.

Re: Arizona Introduces a bill to make Bitcoin Legal Tender [pdf]

#56

Post by ceejayoz »

MadcapJake wrote: post #48
NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Well, they've already violated this by accepting USD ... no, the US dollar is a Federal construction, created by Congress. Congress is not bound by Article I, Section 10, Clause 1 - only the states.

Still though, the Dollar isn't listed there as a tender that the state can utilize. I don't think "make legal tender" means "create" but rather "accept as".

> Still though, the Dollar isn't listed there as a tender that the state can utilize.

That clause does not forbid the Federal government from making other things legal tender, only the states.

The Federal government made paper dollars legal tender via the Legal Tender Act of 1862. (They could make blueberries legal tender, if they wanted, but Arizona cannot.)

> I don't think "make legal tender" means "create" but rather "accept as".

No. To make it legal tender means requiring acceptance of that item as payment for a monetary debt (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tender). It would impact everyone in Arizona, not just the state government.

Re: Arizona Introduces a bill to make Bitcoin Legal Tender [pdf]

#57

Post by [deleted] »

charonn0 wrote: post #15

Wouldn't this violate the federal Constitution? > No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money ; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts ; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility. -Article I, Section 10, Clause 1

[deleted]

Re: Arizona Introduces a bill to make Bitcoin Legal Tender [pdf]

#59

Post by ceejayoz »

posterboy wrote: post #54
ceejayoz wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It says states can't make something legal tender. Nothing about acceptance. Arizona can accept Bitcoin all they like. They cannot make it legal tender in Arizona.

So, they'd have to print it in gold. Still an option at the worth of it currently.

No, that wouldn't work. The gold printout would be worth its weight in gold, not the value in Bitcoin of the data printed on it. If you used $1 worth of gold to print one BTC worth $40k, the recipient would only be legally required to count it as $1 towards your debt.

Re: Arizona Introduces a bill to make Bitcoin Legal Tender [pdf]

#60

Post by stjohnswarts »

yawaworht1978 wrote: post #20
charonn0 wrote: post #15

Wouldn't this violate the federal Constitution? > No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money ; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts ; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility. -Article I, Section 10, Clause 1

I am totally against all things Bitcoin, however, it's not coined exclusive in the us and the constitution is not immutable, else it would be a very bad document that can't get with the times. Anything in the constitution is not canonical forever.

Currently the constitution is mostly immutable considering how split our country is.
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