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In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist

nytimes.com

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Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist

#331

Post by yibg »

locallost wrote: post #103
Tabular-Iceberg wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not. Why on earth would you want to have a bunch of Soviet or communist Chinese spies running around?

McCarthyism boils down to someone having absolute power to destroy somebody else's life based on their own beliefs. For instance, homosexuals were also targeted by McCarthy, simply because they were interpreted as subversive. It's nothing more than a modern witch hunt, a practice that can't be reconciled with what we consider the rule of law today. There is absolutely nothing noble about it.

Having a big enemy to fight is good for those in power. Always has been, probably always will be.

Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist

#332

Post by gowld »

mlindner wrote: post #321
_yo2u wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 10 year event encompassing a country’s worth of people leads to many secondary and tertiary effects can mean something different for every person.

What's that supposed to mean?

It means that a lot happened in 10 years, so when comparing a single event to the whole thing, obviously it can only match up to part of it, not the whole thing.

Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist

#333

Post by FpUser »

tharne wrote: post #183
commandlinefan wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To call this “equivalent “ yet.

Quoted post unavailable.

They're happily killing people or sponsor killings in the rest of the world. There are countries that can attest to that.

Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist

#334

Post by the_doctah »

KerrAvon wrote: post #300
pphysch wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Objectively speaking (I think both 'sides' are equally confused): * People losing their careers over reactionary views/speech * Historical monuments/names being destroyed (mostly relating to CSA/overt racism) * Record levels of distrust. Anyone could be a Trumpist or "far left radical", so keep your distance. * Large organizations are installing ideological offices to keep reactionary behavior in check, some going as…

How you can be "objective," live through the past twenty years, and wind up thinking "both sides" are equally problematic/at fault for the current situation? Maybe a little history will help? America has been prone to succumb to demagoguery for a long time. Here's a novel from 1935 that you should be familiar with: https://www.amazon.com/Cant-Happen-Here-Sinclair-Lewis/dp/19... The reason it's finally happening now i…

You provided a perfect example without realizing it, it just wasn't contained in the links you provided.

Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist

#335

Post by splitstud »

beepbooptheory wrote: post #77

To at least attempt to think about this critically, and to try to ignore the amount of frankly shocking things people are saying here, can I ask, maybe from people in the field, is this level of industrial/scientific espionage even a critical factor in our current world? We live in a global world where scientists in various institutions are constantly trading papers, findings. Why are we so worried that the U.S. migh…

No post body was provided.

Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist

#336

Post by posterboy »

Schiendelman wrote: post #174
throwawayarnty wrote: post #10

The worst part of these accusations is that your reputation is tarnished whether you are guilty or not. This instilled a sense of fear in every person even if they are innocent because you can still be targeted and your career ruined. If this scientist was just stating out, rather than already established, he would likely have had to quit science. There should be some penalty for false accusations that can compensate…

He can certainly sue the US government for accusing him publicly without enough evidence to prosecute, and the resulting loss of compensation. Now, it's not exactly affordable for him to do so. But that's a separate problem we should solve.

> He had five or six active research projects, and during the months that followed, they slowed and faltered. The 15 postdoctoral students he worked with were transferred to other research groups, taking their knowledge with them.

> “We are all losers, right?” Dr. Chen said. “My reputation got ruined. My students, my post-docs, they changed their career. They changed to other groups. M.I.T., the country, the U.S., we lose. I can’t calculate the loss. That loss cannot be calculated.”

How would you solve this?

Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist

#337

Post by mlindner »

gowld wrote: post #332
mlindner wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's that supposed to mean?

It means that a lot happened in 10 years, so when comparing a single event to the whole thing, obviously it can only match up to part of it, not the whole thing.

That's still silly as that would imply that the US is currently in the middle of a 10 year cultural revolution, yet there's no slew of dead educated people. So again, this is a poor comparison. Do you really think China's cultural revolution put people through a rule of law court system and acquitted people? Or do you think that they just went around murdering people on drumhead trials with no rule of law? (Hint, it's the latter)

Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist

#338

Post by Miner49er »

Veen wrote: post #137
locallost wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

McCarthyism boils down to someone having absolute power to destroy somebody else's life based on their own beliefs. For instance, homosexuals were also targeted by McCarthy, simply because they were interpreted as subversive. It's nothing more than a modern witch hunt, a practice that can't be reconciled with what we consider the rule of law today. There is absolutely nothing noble about it.

There are two issues that should be separated. The first is that there were (and probably are) foreign spies in industry and government. That's damaging and they should be removed. The second issue is that those given the power to find and remove spies can abuse it. That's also damaging and should be prevented. However, that fact that people abuse their power doesn't mean we should stop looking for spies, or that all…

> That's damaging and they should be removed.

Damaging to whom? How is the average person damaged?

Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist

#339

Post by Miner49er »

the_only_law wrote: post #192
n4r9 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iirc McCarthyism is the suppression of socialist ideas full stop, regardless of sympathy to Soviets or China.

You recall incorrectly > McCarthyism is the practice of making accusations of subversion and treason, especially when related to communism and socialism.[1] The term originally referred to the controversial practices and policies of U.S. Senator Joseph McCarthy (R-Wisconsin), and has its origins in the period in the United States known as the Second Red Scare, lasting from the late 1940s through the 1950s. https://en…

And the next sentence, which you conveniently left out:

> It was characterized by heightened political repression and persecution of left-wing individuals, and a campaign spreading fear of alleged communist and socialist influence on American institutions.

Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist

#340

Post by ok_dad »

neither_color wrote: post #26

Last week, the government dismissed the case against Dr. Chen, which alleged that he had concealed seven Chinese affiliations in applications for $2.7 million in grants from the U.S. Energy Department. Prosecutors announced that they had received new information indicating that Dr. Chen had not been obliged to disclose those affiliations, undercutting the basis of the case. I feel like this part could use more detail…

The “none of your business” kind. Why is there a whole thread of this reasoning here? You have read the article, he was totally innocent, and now you’re questioning his “Chinese ties”. I guess he was right in that his image was tarnished permanently. What a sad world that such an accomplished person has been ruined. Imagine the awesome impact he could have had. His research area could have revolutionized many things in energy.
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