Quoted post unavailable.
As long as the false positives never happen to cause great harm to you or your loved ones in particular, am I right?
In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist
91–100 of 484 posts
Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s not. Why on earth would you want to have a bunch of Soviet or communist Chinese spies running around?
McCarthyism was about class struggle. Persecuting all communists, socialists and trade unionists made it less likely the working class would rise up against the capitalist ruling class. It worked for the Nazis, after all. You seem to have internalised this logic, since you're assuming all communists are spies for another nation.
You, on the other hand, seem to have internalized a class-based worldview. I'm not sure that's healthy either
Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist
#93To at least attempt to think about this critically, and to try to ignore the amount of frankly shocking things people are saying here, can I ask, maybe from people in the field, is this level of industrial/scientific espionage even a critical factor in our current world? We live in a global world where scientists in various institutions are constantly trading papers, findings. Why are we so worried that the U.S. migh…
This is a paranoia induced reaction that is being fostered by the media and the war industry, who are interested in creating a new cold war scenario.
Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist
#94The worst part of these accusations is that your reputation is tarnished whether you are guilty or not. This instilled a sense of fear in every person even if they are innocent because you can still be targeted and your career ruined. If this scientist was just stating out, rather than already established, he would likely have had to quit science. There should be some penalty for false accusations that can compensate…
They are also accusations of nothing specific. "Association with China" doesn't seem like it's specific enough to warrant sanction, all it can do it make people suspicious, which it does regardless of whether you've even done anything with China. I accept the US is having a power struggle with China at the moment, but this is not the way to win it. People who aren't actually in favor of freedom will welcome this "rec…
Errr... pretty sure the allegation is more specific than you suggest. The allegation was that he was being paid by China and did not disclose this on grant applications.
Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
No. False positives in the justice system are never acceptable. Even a single case will undermine faith in the entire system. If you want to persecute chinese scientists, you can't do it under the guise of justice and expect people to take the justice system seriously afterwards. Getting arrested over bureaucratic nonsense like failing to disclose some affiliation? That's some 1984 stuff.
>No. False positives in the justice system are never acceptable. Even a single case will undermine faith in the entire system. What you replied to is ridiculous, but so is this. At scale, false positives are inevitable. The only way to ensure no false positives is to never convict anyone. And false negatives also undermine faith in the justice system.
> At scale, false positives are inevitable.
Perhaps, but they should be treated as grave mistakes and heaven and earth should be moved to attempt to avoid them.
Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist
#96The worst part of these accusations is that your reputation is tarnished whether you are guilty or not. This instilled a sense of fear in every person even if they are innocent because you can still be targeted and your career ruined. If this scientist was just stating out, rather than already established, he would likely have had to quit science. There should be some penalty for false accusations that can compensate…
They are also accusations of nothing specific. "Association with China" doesn't seem like it's specific enough to warrant sanction, all it can do it make people suspicious, which it does regardless of whether you've even done anything with China. I accept the US is having a power struggle with China at the moment, but this is not the way to win it. People who aren't actually in favor of freedom will welcome this "rec…
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Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Like McCarthyism it’s a noble cause I'm unsure if this is sarcasm or not.
It’s not. Why on earth would you want to have a bunch of Soviet or communist Chinese spies running around?
McCarthyism was exactly about accusing people falsely of being associated to communists.
Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist
#98To at least attempt to think about this critically, and to try to ignore the amount of frankly shocking things people are saying here, can I ask, maybe from people in the field, is this level of industrial/scientific espionage even a critical factor in our current world? We live in a global world where scientists in various institutions are constantly trading papers, findings. Why are we so worried that the U.S. migh…
I worked in cyber security at a major industrial company for 5 years. Yes “insider threat” is a very real concern and people get busted exfiltrating company data all the time.
Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist
#99This is a troubling story in so many ways, I don't know what the answer to the problem is but feel something needs to change within the government when people are subjected to what can only be described as a witch trial bordering on McCarthyism. The fact the state and his own lawyer were pressing him to take a deal is also very troubling as it echoes the plight of many impoverished young men who lost their families,…
I agree with all of your points except the last - I’m guessing you dont read “RWM”? https://www.wsj.com/articles/mit-professor-gang-chen-says-mi...
You are right. I apologize for injecting a subject that has no relevance to the conversation, sometimes I forget that doing so is not within HN guidelines. (And by right I obviously mean correct, although it is an interesting double entendre!)
Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist
#100Quoted post unavailable.
"False positives are inevitable / better than the alternative / etc." talk is usually a sign that your justice system needs a brutal purge, to get rid of all the thuggish, politically motivated, self-serving, lazy, and just plain incompetent people.