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In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist

nytimes.com

31–40 of 484 posts

Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist

#31
>The dismissal is a setback to the China Initiative, an effort started in 2018 to crack down on economic and scientific espionage by China. Many of the prosecutions, like the case against Dr. Chen, do not allege espionage or theft of information, but something narrower: failing to disclose Chinese affiliations in grant applications to U.S. agencies. Critics say it has instilled a pervasive atmosphere of fear among scientists of Chinese descent.

While I can agree with and see the value of the overall agenda, it seems a matter of bad application. I won't pretend to be an expert on the matter who can say exactly what needs to be done, but I wonder about how necessary it really is to drag people through the mud in such cases. It certainly can have a chilling effect on scientists with affiliations to Chinese entities, many of which are plenty secular. I understand the impetus to investigate all affiliations when a foreign state is involved, but at the same time it becomes self destructive if it goes too far all too quickly. The solution, to me, seems to fall on those doing the investigating; that the investigating parties must hold to a higher and better informed standard before bringing forth charges that could hurt American scientists, and by extention, American science

Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist

#32
Like McCarthyism it’s a noble cause, but I can’t help but wonder if these initiatives rather tend to be outsmarted by the real spies. People who are accidentally incriminated by clerical errors and misunderstandings are much lower hanging fruit.

Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist

#33

Quoted post unavailable.

>Works like precaution To keep scientists of Chinese descent out of US academia, yes indeed.

I've worked in Academia. There are so many Chinese scientists. Trust me that's not a problem in the least.

Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist

#34

Quoted post unavailable.

We cannot marginalize segments of our population based on race, nationality, religion, sex, etc. and expect to remain competitive. This is a basic truth of economics. And it's also wrong to do that to people in the first place.

Americans are Americans and we all should be treated equally by our government.

Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist

#36
> “My thinking is, I didn’t do anything wrong,” he said. “So whatever they look at, they won’t find that I did anything wrong.”

This statement seems like a completely backward mindset to have, especially after watching this classic advice piece on youtube [1].

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE

Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Works like precaution To keep scientists of Chinese descent out of US academia, yes indeed.

I've worked in Academia. There are so many Chinese scientists. Trust me that's not a problem in the least.

So we should make it a problem?

Re: In the end, you're treated like a spy, says MIT scientist

#38
post #30

Last week, the government dismissed the case against Dr. Chen, which alleged that he had concealed seven Chinese affiliations in applications for $2.7 million in grants from the U.S. Energy Department. Prosecutors announced that they had received new information indicating that Dr. Chen had not been obliged to disclose those affiliations, undercutting the basis of the case. I feel like this part could use more detail…

Agreed. It seems like the details matter here. Were the affiliations suspect but not reportable? Or were the affiliations unremarkable and not reportable but prosecutors screwed up?

> were the affiliations unremarkable and not reportable but prosecutors screwed up?

Yes, the prosecutors royally screwed up.

From the article:

"Prosecutors had floated the idea of a deferred prosecution agreement, which would have allowed him to return to work and apply for government grants in the future. In return, said his lawyer, Mr. Fisher, he would have to admit to having some ties to China, none of them a violation of the law."

So why would Chen have to declare them if they aren't illegal?

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