Live data from Hacker News

The case against masks at school

theatlantic.com

821–830 of 1001 posts

Re: The case against masks at school

#821
post #534
post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. If your Grandpa chose to not get vaccinated and gets COVID, thats his problem. 2. The idea that anyone who wants in person learning is a "screaming Karen" is fucking stupid. There is lots of evidence that remote learning has all kinds of negative outcomes for kids, and your (frankly sexist) dismissiveness is the reason this conversation never goes anywhere.

> If your Grandpa chose to not get vaccinated and gets COVID, thats his problem. Unfortunately though that's not true. It's putting a huge burden on hospitals that affects us all.

But the studies in the article, from multiple places, say that masking children didn't make a difference in local covid rates.

Re: The case against masks at school

#822
post #742

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. My twin brother lives just outside of PDX, and the schools were closed for a full year, then hybrid classes. His son was in kindergarten when it hit, just like my daughter. His son is severely delayed now. On top of all of that, they finally open the schools back up and shove the kids into useless masks. His son (Jack) needs speech therapy. When he goes, the instructor is wearing a mask. He can't see what her…

The strange part to me is that usually on policy issues there’s this band of reasonable behavior and people disagree on which end of that band we should fall, but if you’re honest you can understand the other side’s perspective. On COVID in Oregon, it’s the first time in my life I’ve felt like I’m looking at a completely different world than others. I’m just flabbergasted by the policy calls driven by COVID hysteria.…

So what I'm about to write here is I want to emphasize just groaning and complaining from my brother. He recently moved just over the line to one of those suburbs of Portland in Washington State. He told me he was fed up with Oregon and although he doesn't like the Pacific Northwest in general, he is divorced and needs to be near his ex-wife since she has custody of the kids.

His view of Oregon is that it's filled with people who are really not that bright. Obviously this is a stereotype but I will say that being out there what I kind of sensed was a bunch of people who were descended from pioneers who were very religious and are wired for religion but don't have it. I think COVID helped foster a new form of religion in the population, but perhaps it was always a sort of case where people on the coast were kind of doing that with progressive politics in general.

Human beings really are herd animals, and the vast majority of the population would rather do what is popular than what is right. I think that you have a toxic mix of this ideology combined with the rather unique Pacific Northwest cultural trait of never speaking your mind and primarily using passive aggressive behavior at all times. My brother worked at Nike for a while and was always told by colleagues that he was "too intense". He and I both worked in military intelligence in the past in the DC area and he's a driven worker like I am. He's only intense to people that really want to take it slow all the time. He always told me that the cultural traits in the region were really obnoxious and obstructed. Getting good work done. Nike is after all a shitshow of a company. Highly unproductive, very unefficient, with the dramatically larger workforce then it needs at its campus in Beaverton. We are talking about a state that has made the decision that people can't pump their own gas because it would hurt the economy by robbing people of the job of pumping their gas for them. That's a special kind of stupidity at the government level.

On top of this rather insane groupthink that you are referring to west of the Cascades, you have this other weird situation which is the rather extreme government measures at the state level have completely radicalized people on the right side of the political spectrum. When going to a grocery store in Sherwood outside of Portland, I encountered a bunch of boogaloo boys. Half the time I was driving around there I would occasionally see a truck with radical right wing stickers all over it, signifying membership in some group. (3 percenters or something like that?) I almost never see that anywhere in Colorado outside of Denver.

But perhaps the most memorable part of that trip was the interior of the state and the fact that the state government of Oregon clearly has zero authority anywhere east of the Cascades. It's really something to behold. You have this massive land area that is essentially ungovernable by the state government. The local population absolutely hates everything from the capital. They aren't at all subtle about it. It is basically a state of open, proud disobedience. It is the only place I've ever been since the pandemic started where there is a state law requiring wearing a mask indoors, but if I walked into a convenience store wearing one, they would get angry at me including the employees. It's a very good lesson to me about the fact that urban areas should understand that large swaths of this country will become completely ungovernable if they continue to use the government as a cudgel to force their values on a population that doesn't want it.

Another item that was shocking was the fact that we had visited Portland a few times before in previous summers, and the horrific degradation of Portland's downtown was tragic to see. It's really insane. Granted I was there right as the federal courthouse was being besieged, and it was pretty crazy having young men dressed in black threaten me and my brother when we were walking. We are both over 6 ft and over 200 lb and I'm pretty sure that's the only reason we didn't get our asses beat. Complete lawlessness in that city. I just don't know how people who live there aren't completely embarrassed by it.

Re: The case against masks at school

#823
post #688

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. It wasn't that bad. School still continued. Your children are at most slightly inconvenienced during a global pandemic that has killed MILLIONS of people. All you have to do is keep your kid looking at a screen. They may need to repeat a year of school. At some point in their future your kids boss may say "oh right, you were a pandemic kid, here let me show you." It's like someone in WW2 UK complaining that the G…

You are wrong. Deeply wrong. I respect HN's rules, so I won't reply as I really want to. There is deep psychological damage to kids who sat alone, by themselves for the past year. Have others had it worse in history? Sure. But that's like saying if you get run over by a Prius, it doesn't matter because people that got hit by a truck had it worse. And for all that keeping kids at home, we really didn't gain anything.…

You're wrong. Deeply wrong. There is no deep psychological damage. Children are not fragile snowflakes - they're adaptable, resilient little humans. That's why as a species we continue to thrive.

Stop inventing new problems that don't exist - there's already enough to go around.

Re: The case against masks at school

#824

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gosh, it's like vaccines work and that's the way out of this. You know, I see snarky little comments like this becoming more and more common on this site, and I'd just like to point out that they are not helpful in any way. Who is it directed towards? Do you think you are convincing anyone , or encouraging a productive discussion? I'd be willing to bet that the overwhelming majority of people on this website are va…

I actually want to hear good reasons for avoiding vaccinations, because many people care a lot about that. I can understand immuno-compromised people, an underlying medical condition, for whom a vaccine may not work or may be dangerous. Undergoing chemotherapy treatment for cancer? Got it: vaccines won't help you (or anyone else) until you can get past the cancer. I don't agree with an argument from stand-my-ground,…

No post body was provided.

Re: The case against masks at school

#825

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in seattle. It's dark and cold. Hell the mask helps, it's great for keeping my face warm. I don't consider myself locked up. I miss in person game nights the most, i miss dinner with friends (in a private home or restaurant) somewhat. We do gamenights online using videochat and products like roll20 and boardgame arena. It's not super awesome but it works for us for now. I leave the house, go on walks go shoppi…

i love this viewpoint because your behavior is so similar to what i see among 90% of my friends, it seems logically consistent, and you seem to have arrived at it from your own reasoning/volition. and then we have the mandates. presumably, your behavior is the same with v.s. without them. as is the case for most people i know. with the exception of my one friend who was building a japanese-style coin-operated 24/7 un…

"a year into the pandemic" vaccines were literally just becoming available to the general public. Mandates pre-vaccine were a totally different ball game than mandates now, as far as what would be reasonable in the interest of public safety. I also find it hard to believe that Aurora was requiring strip mall stores to check vaccine cards before any vaccine was even fully FDA approved, and I can't find any evidence of that online either. Are you sure it wasn't something about verifying mask compliance?

Re: The case against masks at school

#826

General observation from reading the comments - the folks on HN must not have many friends working in medicine for if they had they'd realize those friends are swamped and burned-out. They'd also know that pretty much the only condition we're treating nowadays is Covid. Surgeries are continuing to be postponed - including surgeries that can lead to worse problems down the road such as removing cancerous tumors. And i…

This is a perfect example of catastrophizing our situation and seems riddled with anxiety and fear.

The CDC has already admitted half of the people in the hospital with Covid aren’t there because of Covid and this lines up with other countries experiences.

The world has been through far worse than what we are going through now and we made it just fine.

You personally may die from Covid or you could get run over by a car walking your doggy.

Rather than worrying about it, try and turn off the internet, spend time with people you love and enjoy your life. There will always be time to worry and stress.

Re: The case against masks at school

#827

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who, in a school, I wonder, could possibly teach children something.... ...yeah, it'd be teachers teaching the children, and it would take a lot less time than weeks or months.

No, no it would not. Most of it would be breaking thoughtless behavior. Johnny you have your fingers in your eyes again. Joan, did you wash your hands before and after smearing that lip gloss on? Etc... It is all pretty much worthless considering all the unmasked children gathered for lunch.

Then don't have children gather unmasked for lunch indoors?

You're just bringing up other things schools should do...

Re: The case against masks at school

#828

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NYTimes has a pretty good source on this. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/covid-hospitals-... I'll tell you that here in Chicago, based off data, and anecdotes: really depends on the neighborhood. Vaccinated areas? Doing fine. Undervaccinated areas? Not doing so well. Gosh, it's like vaccines work and that's the way out of this.

> Gosh, it's like vaccines work and that's the way out of this. You know, I see snarky little comments like this becoming more and more common on this site, and I'd just like to point out that they are not helpful in any way. Who is it directed towards? Do you think you are convincing anyone , or encouraging a productive discussion? I'd be willing to bet that the overwhelming majority of people on this website are va…

No post body was provided.

Re: The case against masks at school

#829

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried her in an N95?

I've worn those during fire season; I feel like any benefit from breathing would be erased by how uncomfortable they are on the face.

Was that a cup style one? Depending on your facial shape, they can be very uncomfortable. Try a 3M Aura flat fold. Life changing for most healthcare workers.

Re: The case against masks at school

#830

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those CDC claims are now demonstrably wrong in the same post-Delta world you’re judging her claims by. When the CDC recommended that vaccinated people no longer needed to wear masks, exactly what do you think they were claiming that is different from Gandhi? It’s fine if you want to ignore people who’ve made predictions about Covid that turned out to be wrong, but it just means you have to ignore everyone.

Gandhi’s claim was wrong at the time . Right then and there. There was no indication the vaccines were sterilizing; she was just wishful thinking.

And yet her position was exactly the same as the CDC’s: the vaccines prevent infection and transmission enough that masks were no longer needed on vaccinated people.
Post reply on HN