The case against masks at school • Hacker News Board

Re: The case against masks at school

#751

Post by tjr225 » Fri, Jan 28, 2022, 1:12 AM UTC

rcurry wrote: post #721

dsl wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course all of our problems go away when you convince the remaining 40% of the population to get vaccinated. I'm actually in favor of doing away with masks and social distancing. Just create a nationwide policy that the unvaccinated will not be admitted or treated for COVID and we can all return to our daily lives.

If only modern medicine was reserved for the Master Race, it would be so much simpler, and cost effective! But before you seek medical treatment we’ll just need you to fill out this questionnaire: 1. Have you ever had an alcoholic beverage? 2. Do you have a BMI greater than 18.5? 3. Have you ever eaten at The Cheesecake Factory? 4. Do you ride, run, or swim less than 40 miles per day? Please understand that your answ…

None of those things have forced us to all drastically alter our lives in the forms of economic and social lockdowns like covid has. It is a pretty silly thing to compare.

Re: The case against masks at school

#752

Post by buzzard1 » Fri, Jan 28, 2022, 1:13 AM UTC

taylodl wrote: post #304

General observation from reading the comments - the folks on HN must not have many friends working in medicine for if they had they'd realize those friends are swamped and burned-out. They'd also know that pretty much the only condition we're treating nowadays is Covid. Surgeries are continuing to be postponed - including surgeries that can lead to worse problems down the road such as removing cancerous tumors. And i…

>they'd realize those friends are swamped and burned-out

The ones dancing on tiktok a year and a half ago? Or the ones who are left in an understaffed environment after their unvaccinated colleagues were canned?

Re: The case against masks at school

#753

Post by nradov » Fri, Jan 28, 2022, 1:13 AM UTC

eddieplan9 wrote: post #673

aqme28 wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If your Grandpa chose to not get vaccinated and gets COVID, thats his problem. Unfortunately though that's not true. It's putting a huge burden on hospitals that affects us all.

Maybe insurance companies should drop them (or raise their premium, just like what they do with smokers).

Due to the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare), medical insurers aren't legally allowed to set premiums based on vaccination status.

https://www.healthcare.gov/how-plans-set-your-premiums/

Re: The case against masks at school

#754

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jan 28, 2022, 1:14 AM UTC

rhexs wrote: post #689

eddieplan9 wrote: post #673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe insurance companies should drop them (or raise their premium, just like what they do with smokers).

Should insurance companies also drop low income Americans with diets that trivially lead to heart disease? Shouldn't we, as a society, take care of those who don't know better?

[deleted]

Re: The case against masks at school

#755

Post by claytongulick » Fri, Jan 28, 2022, 1:14 AM UTC

DavidSJ wrote: post #624

claytongulick wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that we interpret the results of those studies very differently. I'd also suggest that we only regard lab studies with a bit of intellectual curiosity, rather than a meaningful focus. Lab studies are very different than the real world where my son trades his batman mask for a friend's spiderman mask because it's cooler :D

In biological sciences we have to integrate multiple kinds of evidence — in vitro (or in larva? — in the mask) lab experiments, animal models, randomized controlled trials in humans, descriptive statistics of human populations, in silico simulation, etc. — because they all have their advantages and disadvantages. Lab/in vitro models are great because they allow for tightly controlled conditions and are clear tests of…

Margery Smelkinson (the author), Ph.D., infections disease expert focused on Covid 19 and affiliated with NIH, disagrees with your interpretation.

Re: The case against masks at school

#756

Post by nradov » Fri, Jan 28, 2022, 1:15 AM UTC

emteycz wrote: post #616

gkbrk wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If your Grandpa chose to not get vaccinated and gets COVID, thats his problem. Sure thing. Can we get the Grandpa's to sign documents saying they're going unvaccinated by choice and would like to opt-out from any hospital care related to COVID if their resources are needed for any other patient?

Why? We're on a free market. Surely they could simply add a big surcharge. I'd expect their insurance to go way up too.

There is no free market. Due to the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare), medical insurers aren't legally allowed to set premiums based on vaccination status.

https://www.healthcare.gov/how-plans-set-your-premiums/

Re: The case against masks at school

#757

Post by nradov » Fri, Jan 28, 2022, 1:17 AM UTC

dsl wrote: post #688

brimble wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If screaming Karens are going to insist on in person learning In defense of the Karens (ew, I feel gross even typing that) remote learning absolutely was the disaster they say it was. It was really, really bad. It's hard to exaggerate how bad it was. And I mean specifically for the kids, not for the parents (it also sucked for them/us, obviously). We can probably recover well-enough from a semester or two of it, bu…

No. It wasn't that bad. School still continued. Your children are at most slightly inconvenienced during a global pandemic that has killed MILLIONS of people. All you have to do is keep your kid looking at a screen. They may need to repeat a year of school. At some point in their future your kids boss may say "oh right, you were a pandemic kid, here let me show you." It's like someone in WW2 UK complaining that the G…

Closing schools was never necessary or even helpful. Some countries like Sweden kept primary schools open for in-person learning throughout the pandemic. They did fine.

Re: The case against masks at school

#758

Post by jjeaff » Fri, Jan 28, 2022, 1:18 AM UTC

unethical_ban wrote: post #491

colpabar wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gosh, it's like vaccines work and that's the way out of this. You know, I see snarky little comments like this becoming more and more common on this site, and I'd just like to point out that they are not helpful in any way. Who is it directed towards? Do you think you are convincing anyone , or encouraging a productive discussion? I'd be willing to bet that the overwhelming majority of people on this website are va…

I don't think comments like that are meant to convince anyone. There are vanishingly few circumstances other than legitimate medical conflicts that warrant being unvaccinated. Namely, crippling anxiety of planning/scheduling the appointment, or being misled by trusted advisors (Fox Entertainment or doctors who should have their medical license revoked). Other than that, I have very little patience or sympathy.

I'm surprised more doctors have not had their license revoked for publicly preaching misinformation. You can have your license revoked for treating a patient when a more specialized expert is available. For example, a dentist can get in trouble for not referring more complex issues to a dental surgeon, periodontist, etc.

And yet we have cardiologists and eye doctors and chiropractors telling the public that the vaccine is dangerous and that we would be better off without it.

I saw someone mentioned that a doctor/professor from Johns Hopkins was raising concerns about college age kids getting vaccinated. I looked him up. He's a surgical oncologist. Guess what the epidemiologists, virologists, and immunologists at Johns Hopkins are recommending?

Oh ya, and the surgical oncologist turned epidemiologist just so happens to have a book about the pandemic that he is pushing right now. I'm sure that has nothing to do with it.

Re: The case against masks at school

#759

Post by Zanneth » Fri, Jan 28, 2022, 1:19 AM UTC

ajford wrote: post #597

another_story wrote: post #508

In Taiwan we've been wearing masks for over 2 years with near zero complaint at school. I have to remind a few kids a day to put it over their nose. We've had Omicron here for awhile, but it's still only a trickle of cases, with no exponential explosion. The policies here, with contact tracing, quarantine and masks, have kept things open and people from dying. I don't understand the hesitancy.

It's the incredible selfishness of some Americans (speaking as an American). Plenty of people who take their own personal comfort and opinions as higher priority over others. Even from day one we've had people refusing to mask/sanitize/social distance, claiming it "violates their freedom".

I disagree that it is rooted in selfishness. It's healthy to live in a society that has at least some degree of skepticism over public health claims that tend to optimize one variable at the cost of others.

Since this article is about children, there is a lot of evidence to show that kids are experiencing developmental delays that are likely correlated with masking. The long term effects of which is not yet well understood. I would much rather live in a country that challenges assumptions and fosters debate, instead of blindly pursuing countermeasures that may have extremely detrimental outcomes in the future.

Re: The case against masks at school

#760

Post by concinds » Fri, Jan 28, 2022, 1:20 AM UTC

lancesells wrote: post #540

taylodl wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've asked my friends working in medicine the same thing. What if hospitals were to start turning away those who are willingly unvaccinated? I haven't been able to get a clear answer but the basic theme I hear is you can't, state law prohibits that. Of course the law can be changed, but what legislature is going to do that? This is where politics enters the fray. They'd rather kick the can down the road and bring in…

I'm vaccinated and think everyone capable of receiving the vaccine should get it but turning people away is cruel. That's science-fiction dystopia cruelty in my opinion. Now if a hospital is full and at capacity maybe there are some calculations but just turning people away is wrong.

Note I wasn't suggesting turning people away if they're unvaccinated, I think that would be dehumanizing and would set a horrible precedent. I'm just wondering why pre-programmed surgeries and screenings are being deprogrammed when a Covid hospitalization spike is expected, as opposed to keeping all previously programmed appointments, and turning new Covid patients away when you hit full capacity (regardless of vaccination status, and obviously wouldn't include people who catch Covid at the hospital since they're already there) given the additional burden involved when dealing with Covid patients.