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The case against masks at school

theatlantic.com

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Re: The case against masks at school

#601

Post by ajford »

adamrezich wrote: post #410
jmull wrote: post #398

Hm... this does not actually make an argument against masks in school. It's perfectly fair to point out the limitations of the available studies. Of course we want better ones -- that's a good argument for more, better studies. But the lack of absolute proof isn't an argument against masks in school. That's dumb. Until we conduct some well-designed rigorous controlled experiments on human children (which we'll never…

> Masks aren't exactly burdensome. We make kids wear shirts and shoes, even when it's unnecessary in summer. Given the current situation, if you could magically set aside politics and the associated mouth-breathers (which of course we can't) wouldn't we actually demand proof that masks are a net negative before we stop mandating them? normally you're supposed to actually demand proof that something is a net positive…

In the middle of a global pandemic, is the chance that it could prevent a death or life-long complication for someone not a "net positive"?

If wearing red shirts on Tuesdays gave me a 0.001% improvement in my kid not being infected, sure as shit I'd be wearing red shirts on Tuesdays and convincing everyone I could to do the same.

Re: The case against masks at school

#602

Post by sleepybrett »

pcmoney wrote: post #575
sleepybrett wrote: post #568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in seattle. It's dark and cold. Hell the mask helps, it's great for keeping my face warm. I don't consider myself locked up. I miss in person game nights the most, i miss dinner with friends (in a private home or restaurant) somewhat. We do gamenights online using videochat and products like roll20 and boardgame arena. It's not super awesome but it works for us for now. I leave the house, go on walks go shoppi…

You and your friends are well off and it looks like you dont have children and can work remote. Thats great! Unfortunately most are living under wildly different and much more difficult circumstances that they are being asked to bear month after month with no end and with dubious effect.

If half our population hadn't decided covid was a hoax and didn't take even the simplest precautions from the beginning we probably wouldn't be in the situation we are in now.

Re: The case against masks at school

#603

Post by sanderjd »

lancesells wrote: post #540
taylodl wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've asked my friends working in medicine the same thing. What if hospitals were to start turning away those who are willingly unvaccinated? I haven't been able to get a clear answer but the basic theme I hear is you can't, state law prohibits that. Of course the law can be changed, but what legislature is going to do that? This is where politics enters the fray. They'd rather kick the can down the road and bring in…

I'm vaccinated and think everyone capable of receiving the vaccine should get it but turning people away is cruel. That's science-fiction dystopia cruelty in my opinion. Now if a hospital is full and at capacity maybe there are some calculations but just turning people away is wrong.

They were explicitly talking about the case of hospitals that are struggling with capacity issues.

Re: The case against masks at school

#604

Post by pcmoney »

dsl wrote: post #406
perardi wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and? The hospital case load is overwhelmingly, screamingly, massively dominated by the elderly unvaccinated. https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Documents/1600/coronavirus/... Given the extremely contagious nature of Omicron, what plausible way do we have to prevent these individuals from getting COVID and using hospital space? And don't say masking up kids—because if they haven't gotten vaccinated, then why do you…

I know multiple households where the initial infection vector was the kids. Grandpa might be stupid and refuse the vaccine, but keeping little Billy from becoming a carrier lessens the hospital load. If screaming Karens are going to insist on in person learning, we need to mask test and vaccinate in the schools.

So basically harming Billy possibly violating his rights and not respecting Grandpa’s autonomy to make his own decisions regarding risk/return tradeoffs is the solution? Hasn’t worked well to date.

Re: The case against masks at school

#605

Post by pcmoney »

dsl wrote: post #406
perardi wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and? The hospital case load is overwhelmingly, screamingly, massively dominated by the elderly unvaccinated. https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Documents/1600/coronavirus/... Given the extremely contagious nature of Omicron, what plausible way do we have to prevent these individuals from getting COVID and using hospital space? And don't say masking up kids—because if they haven't gotten vaccinated, then why do you…

I know multiple households where the initial infection vector was the kids. Grandpa might be stupid and refuse the vaccine, but keeping little Billy from becoming a carrier lessens the hospital load. If screaming Karens are going to insist on in person learning, we need to mask test and vaccinate in the schools.

Why? Masks dont help much. Vaccines dont stop contagion or transmission. They do lower risk of severe covid but kids are very low risk even if unvaccinated.

Re: The case against masks at school

#606

Post by edgyquant »

IX-103 wrote: post #357
edgyquant wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah me as well + I wear glasses so I can’t see unless the weather is absolutely perfect (little humidity etc.)

It turns out a good fitting mask is essential for comfort. I had a problem with masks being hard to breathe in and fogging up my glasses. Then I found a good set of N95 masks that have a real solid fit. It's loose and flexible enough to be breathable, and has a solid seal across the nose so moisture doesn't get near my glasses. You can tell it's a good fit because it deflates/inflates likes a balloon when you breathe…

I did manage to find sports masks I wear when I got the gym that do make it much easier to breath, although they fog up my glasses still so I take those off when I'm there.

Re: The case against masks at school

#607

Post by sleepybrett »

Closi wrote: post #564
a_shovel wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This plan would kill a large portion of immunocompromised people worldwide.

Why are the only deaths we seem to care about those that are Covid related? If we are worried about killing people worldwide, far more people die of hunger-related causes each day, but we aren't rebuilding our entire society to save those people. But I can't see a reason why deaths from Covid are more of a tragedy than those we left to starve. Or take smoking for instance - more people die each year from smoking than…

Smoking, at least where I live is heavily taxed and regulated. You can't smoke in any building open to the public or place of employment, you can't smoke within 25ft of any entrance to any of those buildings either. Cigarettes are taxed to hell and back as well.

I guess we could do that to the people unwilling to get vaxxinated. Tax them for their status and bar them from any building open to the public or place of employment.

Re: The case against masks at school

#608

Post by thebean11 »

sleepybrett wrote: post #568
gherkinnn wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. At some point you've got to ask if these measures are worth living for. It's winter in the northern hemisphere. It'd dark and it's cold. Keeping people locked up at home for a third season is absurd.

I live in seattle. It's dark and cold. Hell the mask helps, it's great for keeping my face warm. I don't consider myself locked up. I miss in person game nights the most, i miss dinner with friends (in a private home or restaurant) somewhat. We do gamenights online using videochat and products like roll20 and boardgame arena. It's not super awesome but it works for us for now. I leave the house, go on walks go shoppi…

You're really still staying away from your friends, even at someone's house? I guess I get it with Omicron, just surprising at this point.

Re: The case against masks at school

#609

Post by pcmoney »

watersb wrote: post #510
colpabar wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gosh, it's like vaccines work and that's the way out of this. You know, I see snarky little comments like this becoming more and more common on this site, and I'd just like to point out that they are not helpful in any way. Who is it directed towards? Do you think you are convincing anyone , or encouraging a productive discussion? I'd be willing to bet that the overwhelming majority of people on this website are va…

I actually want to hear good reasons for avoiding vaccinations, because many people care a lot about that. I can understand immuno-compromised people, an underlying medical condition, for whom a vaccine may not work or may be dangerous. Undergoing chemotherapy treatment for cancer? Got it: vaccines won't help you (or anyone else) until you can get past the cancer. I don't agree with an argument from stand-my-ground,…

How Does an individual choice to get vaccinated or not impact others?

Vaccines do not stop transmission of Covid nor do they stop you from getting Covid.

They merely decrease your chances of getting severe Covid or dying from Covid.

Thus the decision to vax or not is clearly a personal choice.

Re: The case against masks at school

#610

Post by ajford »

spookthesunset wrote: post #438
davidw wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once again: people are dying, right now, because they can't get access to health care, because hospitals in some places are overflowing with mostly unvaccinated people with COVID. This seems like a fairly location-specific issue, so I would expect that different places could do different things at different times. We can and are focusing on other things, but hospital capacity is a good one to work on keeping down. On…

Where are people dying because they cannot get access to healthcare?

My large city in Texas is now down to 35 ICU beds across the entire city. That's how.

A friend's father-in-law had to drive 4hrs away to find a hospital with capacity for his cardiac surgery. That's how.

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