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The case against masks at school

theatlantic.com

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Re: The case against masks at school

#351

Post by xondono »

veemjeem wrote: post #237
xondono wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wtf, masks absolutely work. I’m not that sure. A lot of experts agree that there’s not much quality data to reach that conclusion. Most “definitive proof” comes from mechanical studies (they measure how far your saliva is reaching with and with out mask), but that’s not the only important factor. Masks are not designed for full day use, and by wearing them everyone is constantly touching their face, mouth and nose.…

Nurses working in the ICU during the beginning of the pandemic would use the same mask for an entire week without losing efficacy. If the masks didn't work, we would have seen a huge number of them infected in the NYC hospitals but that didn't happen. Most viruses don't survive very long on surfaces.

Nurses in ICU are constantly sanitizing their hands, use gloves and are trained about the dangers of constantly touching your face.

> Most viruses don't survive very long on surfaces.

Virus can last for days on glass, metals and other non porous surfaces.

Re: The case against masks at school

#352

Post by jrockway »

smhenderson wrote: post #348
Hokusai wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Americans debating every day whether strongly authoritarian and invasive measures are OK, if they save lives. In Europe seatbelts are mandatory, and it is forbidden to smoke in most places. I think that these are reasonable measures. I think, for the exact same reasons, that mask mandates are reasonable. In public transport is mandatory to wear at least a t-shirt, as skin to skin contact gets unhealthy fast. And re…

In Europe belts are mandatory I'm having a hard time understanding this one... Are you literally saying that belts that hold people's pants up are mandatory?

I've been to Europe and never wore a belt, so they must mean something else.

Re: The case against masks at school

#353

Post by nkrisc »

DeWilde wrote: post #85
nkrisc wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of masking and being cautious at this point is not to avoid ever catching COVID, because it seems certain now that everyone will catch it at some point. The point is to be the last person to catch it when hospitals are at normal capacity and everything else is back to normal, just in case you happen to have a very poor reaction to it. It also just sounds kind of miserable. I also avoid catching the flu as m…

Sterilizing your environment might be actually counterproductive for your immune system. A better strategy is eat more healthy and do moderate exercises, especially during flu season. Eventually you will come in to contact with a virus, unless you plan to remove all contact with people and animals.

Who's talking about sterilizing their environment? Reply to wrong comment?

Of course I'll get sick, I've had the cold a few times this year already. That doesn't mean I try to get sick. Don't you wash your hands?

Wearing a mask on a crowded train with people sneezing and coughing seems pretty rational to me. I don't like catching a cold and will take reasonable measures to avoid it. Wearing a mask for an hour is hardly a big deal.

Re: The case against masks at school

#354

Post by maxsilver »

smhenderson wrote: post #348
Hokusai wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Americans debating every day whether strongly authoritarian and invasive measures are OK, if they save lives. In Europe seatbelts are mandatory, and it is forbidden to smoke in most places. I think that these are reasonable measures. I think, for the exact same reasons, that mask mandates are reasonable. In public transport is mandatory to wear at least a t-shirt, as skin to skin contact gets unhealthy fast. And re…

In Europe belts are mandatory I'm having a hard time understanding this one... Are you literally saying that belts that hold people's pants up are mandatory?

It's probably a reference to seatbelts

Re: The case against masks at school

#355

Post by nso95 »

smhenderson wrote: post #348
Hokusai wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Americans debating every day whether strongly authoritarian and invasive measures are OK, if they save lives. In Europe seatbelts are mandatory, and it is forbidden to smoke in most places. I think that these are reasonable measures. I think, for the exact same reasons, that mask mandates are reasonable. In public transport is mandatory to wear at least a t-shirt, as skin to skin contact gets unhealthy fast. And re…

In Europe belts are mandatory I'm having a hard time understanding this one... Are you literally saying that belts that hold people's pants up are mandatory?

seatbelt?

Re: The case against masks at school

#356

Post by TameAntelope »

nradov wrote: post #321
TameAntelope wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many children are there in the US? I'll let you pick the number you'd like to multiply by 0.00002, to get the number of children you're okay with killing.

It's easy to act morally superior and make cheap emotional arguments for when you're not the one who has to make hard decisions. All lives have value, but no life has infinite value. You can't seriously expect the majority to endure perpetual mandates and restrictions just to provide some limited, temporary protection to a small minority who are vulnerable due to risk factors like obesity. https://reason.com/2022/01/…

I absolutely can expect the majority to endure a minor inconvenience, if that minority they're protecting is a thousand innocent children in a given year (you didn't pick a number, so I will, 78 million children).

And the point is to lower the curve, not avoid exposure.

But, again, you know all of this, you just don't care. Shameful.

Re: The case against masks at school

#357

Post by IX-103 »

edgyquant wrote: post #33
andreareina wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a former asthmatic. Even cloth masks are restrictive enough that they'd have been an issue for me.

Yeah me as well + I wear glasses so I can’t see unless the weather is absolutely perfect (little humidity etc.)

It turns out a good fitting mask is essential for comfort. I had a problem with masks being hard to breathe in and fogging up my glasses. Then I found a good set of N95 masks that have a real solid fit. It's loose and flexible enough to be breathable, and has a solid seal across the nose so moisture doesn't get near my glasses. You can tell it's a good fit because it deflates/inflates likes a balloon when you breathe.

Re: The case against masks at school

#358

Post by TameAntelope »

jimmaswell wrote: post #345
TameAntelope wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about individual risk, it's about collective risk, and honestly it's quite selfish to consider the COVID risks only with regard to yourself. And Omicron has made it so the risk profile is effectively the same as when this pandemic started; you will get it, you will be contagious for a time, and you will infect others. By looking at that risk and accepting it, you're throwing away the work you've previously p…

> And Omicron has made it so the risk profile is effectively the same as when this pandemic started; you will get it, you will be contagious for a time, and you will infect others. Total nonsense. Anyone's chance of dying is massively diminished with the vaccine.

Dying isn't the only bad thing that can happen to you if you contract SARS-CoV-19, and it's not just about you.

Re: The case against masks at school

#359

Post by heisenbit »

TameAntelope wrote: post #133
nradov wrote: post #121

There is no valid scientific or medical basis to mandate masks at school. It's pure scientism and politics. For anyone who believes that mask mandates should continue please take the time to educate yourself by listening to this panel discussion by a group of leading physicians. UCSF professor and infectious disease expert Dr. Monica Gandhi explains the current science very clearly. https://peterattiamd.com/covid-par…

What? Do masks reduce infection rates? If yes, mandates work. If no, mandates don’t. Spoiler: they do. [0] This is pants-on-head stupid, and has nothing at all to do with politics. Mandates increase adoption rates of measures that are proven to help, and trying to manipulate the situation to say otherwise is the problem, not the mandate. Anyone opposing masking in schools at this point is literally choosing to risk k…

Sadly they are not just killing children but children are clearly one of the most important vectors carrying the virus from family to family. Childcare and schools are the super nodes in an otherwise socially distanced network. Any effort to slow down the spread in these places will be multiplied across the whole population. Considering the breakdown of medical care system not doing anything right now is irresponsible.

Re: The case against masks at school

#360

Post by uoaei »

chaostheory wrote: post #316
elsonrodriguez wrote: post #183

There have been numerous studies showing that mechanically N95 and equivalent masks can greatly reduce the emission of coronavirus and influenza, and can also greatly reduce the intake of coronavirus-sized particles. That's why these types of articles always focus on mask mandate effectiveness instead of mask effectiveness. How many schools with mask mandates also have their lunch indoors with poor ventilation? Can y…

The article points out that children have been relatively safe from COVID, which is true. The article doesn’t really cite much data to support its case. The studies it cites show a positive benefit to masking that it fails to counter. What it also completely ignores is that the masks are mainly to protect teachers and the children’s older guardians and care takers. I’m tired of anti-maskers.

Children are safe from having debilitating symptoms due to COVID. I think it's worth being precise with language because the shorthand has been confusing for many people and used as a bludgeon in the reopening-schools-debate. But of course the real issue is children getting COVID from family, bringing it to school, spreading it to other kids who then give it to other parents. I have not seen analyses which attempt to quantify the effect of closing schools while taking this into account, but I'm sure they're out there.
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