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The case against masks at school

theatlantic.com

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Re: The case against masks at school

#311

Post by xigoi »

TameAntelope wrote: post #184
johnnyb9 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the childhood mortality risk associated with Covid is comparable to the flu (which seems to be the case) why weren't we masking every child before Covid?

Because the Covid mortality risk for children is already with masks, compared to without masks for the flu. Also, there are considerations other than specifically a child's death that are relevant here, like who that child can spread it to and what negative longterm effects surviving COVID-19 carry, neither of which are as pronounced or unknown as with the flu. But you knew that already, didn't you?

The mortality of a virus is not affected by whether you were wearing a mask when you caught it.

Re: The case against masks at school

#312

Post by phailhaus »

champagnois wrote: post #301
ngngngng wrote: post #275

Funny to watch the Atlantic change directions on COVID over the last few months. I go back and forth on masks. In general I find them to be a minor inconvenience, although I believe they're more inconvenient for me than most because I'm blind and no matter what I do they always fog up my glasses. But while masks themselves are mildly inconvenient, harsh mask mandates and restrictions become much more of an annoyance…

Never mind the fact that they are not rated to filter viruses.

Surgical masks reduce COVID-19 spread, large-scale study shows

https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2021/09/surgical-mask...

Even cloth masks reduced transmission, and "reduce the overall likelihood of experiencing symptoms of respiratory illness during the study period."

Re: The case against masks at school

#313

Post by jdminhbg »

TameAntelope wrote: post #184
johnnyb9 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the childhood mortality risk associated with Covid is comparable to the flu (which seems to be the case) why weren't we masking every child before Covid?

Because the Covid mortality risk for children is already with masks, compared to without masks for the flu. Also, there are considerations other than specifically a child's death that are relevant here, like who that child can spread it to and what negative longterm effects surviving COVID-19 carry, neither of which are as pronounced or unknown as with the flu. But you knew that already, didn't you?

> Because the Covid mortality risk for children is already with masks, compared to without masks for the flu

This is false, which we know because we can measure the fatality rates for children in unmasked locales, and they do not differ from those in masked locales.

Re: The case against masks at school

#314

Post by autoexec »

champagnois wrote: post #301
ngngngng wrote: post #275

Funny to watch the Atlantic change directions on COVID over the last few months. I go back and forth on masks. In general I find them to be a minor inconvenience, although I believe they're more inconvenient for me than most because I'm blind and no matter what I do they always fog up my glasses. But while masks themselves are mildly inconvenient, harsh mask mandates and restrictions become much more of an annoyance…

Never mind the fact that they are not rated to filter viruses.

It doesn't matter. Putting literally anything in front of your virus spewing face hole is going to help to some degree. It's not as if the crook of our arms are rated to filter viruses, but that hasn't stopped health organizations all over the world from recommending the vampire cough for years.

It's true that a mask alone isn't enough to guarantee anyone's safety and while community spread is high sending kids into schools is pretty much asking for them to get infected, but wearing masks is still far better than doing nothing, it's just that sadly "nothing" is all some people are willing to do to prevent the spread of the virus.

Re: The case against masks at school

#315

Post by tootie »

> To justify mask requirements in school at this point, health officials should be able to muster solid evidence from randomized trials of masking in children.

I think that's a false premise right off the bat. Even if you stipulate that evidence for masking is not settled beyond a reasonable doubt, it's still at least very plausibly true and very low cost to enforce. I'd need to see pretty strong evidence of why we shouldn't enforce masking.

Re: The case against masks at school

#316

Post by chaostheory »

elsonrodriguez wrote: post #183

There have been numerous studies showing that mechanically N95 and equivalent masks can greatly reduce the emission of coronavirus and influenza, and can also greatly reduce the intake of coronavirus-sized particles. That's why these types of articles always focus on mask mandate effectiveness instead of mask effectiveness. How many schools with mask mandates also have their lunch indoors with poor ventilation? Can y…

The article points out that children have been relatively safe from COVID, which is true. The article doesn’t really cite much data to support its case. The studies it cites show a positive benefit to masking that it fails to counter. What it also completely ignores is that the masks are mainly to protect teachers and the children’s older guardians and care takers. I’m tired of anti-maskers.

Re: The case against masks at school

#317

Post by naasking »

jimmyswimmy wrote: post #75

An interesting article. I was recently unimpressed by the new Virginia governor's first action to reaching the mandate on masks in schools. My county has elected to retain its own mask mandate. At first blush a mask mandate is generally a public good. I keep my germs to myself, you keep yours too yourself, and we don't get the flu, or a cold, or COVID, whatever. And so for me despite not living wearing a mask I have…

> But kids are in school, together, for 6+ hours a day.

This is probably the relevant variable. If you're sharing the same air space with someone carrying an airborne virus, it probably doesn't matter that a mask is filtering 95% if you're both breathing the same air in an enclosed space for 6 hours. Some minimal viral load is needed for infection, and even with 95% filtering you'll probably surpass that threshold after 6 hours.

Re: The case against masks at school

#318

Post by elsonrodriguez »

naasking wrote: post #308
elsonrodriguez wrote: post #183

There have been numerous studies showing that mechanically N95 and equivalent masks can greatly reduce the emission of coronavirus and influenza, and can also greatly reduce the intake of coronavirus-sized particles. That's why these types of articles always focus on mask mandate effectiveness instead of mask effectiveness. How many schools with mask mandates also have their lunch indoors with poor ventilation? Can y…

> It's like having a kid constantly getting pinkeye from not wiping their ass properly, and then saying toilet paper is pointless, instead of teaching the kid how to wipe and wash properly. Poor adherence in young populations is exactly the point.

There is a deep irony in that this conversation concerns schools and yet we're here implying that it's pointless to teach children anything.

Re: The case against masks at school

#319

Post by cpeterso »

hydrok9 wrote: post #163
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[ EDIT: other commenters response to this comment made me go look up some original research on the topic. As a result, I fully retract what I've said below. I found several papers that report substantial restrictions of airflow from wearing a correctly fitted N95 mask. I was wrong, and I apologize for the misinformation. I did try to explicitly say that I was not doubting someone's experiences, but I apologize for ap…

I do not want to seek to diminish your very real belief that my issues are not real. But they are. My panic attacks in public started when I had to wear masks. When I am anxious or stressed, my breathing shallows. When this happens and I am wearing a mask, i have even less airflow coming in. I have tested this by simply lowering my mask, and examining how much air enters my nasal cavity. It is a huge difference. Or,…

Have you tried using a plastic mask insert/bracket? I find them very helpful. It lifts the mask off my mouth and nose, so the mask doesn't feel as constricting and I no longer suck in cloth when I'm breathing harder.

Re: The case against masks at school

#320

Post by champagnois »

elsonrodriguez wrote: post #309
champagnois wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never mind the fact that they are not rated to filter viruses.

Many of the test aerosols they use to test N95s and similar are smaller than the coronavirus. Also they have done virus measurements from sick people through masks that prove there is filtration happening.

N95s work via an electric polarity of the filter. This charge is what captures the viruses. Filtration fades when the charge is lost.

I don't need to see your studies because I have helped build and certify N95 factories and know a lot about it. The masks arent usable for long and arent reusable, either.

Cloth masks do nothing and are not a consideration to any serious adult.

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