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Myocarditis Cases Reported After mRNA-Based Covid-19 Vaccination

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Re: Myocarditis Cases Reported After mRNA-Based Covid-19 Vaccination

#61

Post by MockObject »

basch wrote: post #59
mattzito wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I posted a similar comment, but it's not the same - AZ uses a modified non-Covid virus that has been engineered to model the spike protein. I'm not sure why that spike protein is different than the MRNA, other than being attached to a virus.

The spike is not attached to the virus, it's produced by the virus. In both the mrna and viral vector vaccines, the mrna and virus are the DELIVERY mechanism of the payload.

Spike proteins are found on the surface of the virus particles. They aren't released by the virus as some sort of pollutant.

Re: Myocarditis Cases Reported After mRNA-Based Covid-19 Vaccination

#62

Post by Tagbert »

kaczordon wrote: post #58
brandon272 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems weirdly selective to point to "over time it is 0%" ... well yes, I assume that if I never get another vaccination that at some point in time I may be susceptible to COVID. What this study does show is that with a booster shot you are offered significant immunity against COVID, including omicron. I'll take 50 or 60% over 0% any day of the week. I am incredibly grateful for the vaccines, which have done (and cont…

What this study does show is that with a booster shot you are offered significant immunity against COVID, including omicron. The confidence interval is between 10%-60% for the booster, oddly selective of you to pick the highest number. The FDA standard is to have at least 50% VE, with lower bound CI >30% for EUA. What this study does show is that immunity is trending down and will likely hit 0 within a few months onc…

From the Nature article

“We esti- mated an extra two (95% confidence interval (CI) 0, 3), one (95% CI 0, 2) and six (95% CI 2, 8) myocarditis events per 1 million people vaccinated with ChAdOx1, BNT162b2 and mRNA-1273, respectively, in the 28 days following a first dose and an extra ten (95% CI 7, 11) myocarditis events per 1 million vaccinated in the 28 days after a second dose of mRNA-1273. This compares with an extra 40 (95% CI 38, 41) myocarditis events per 1 million patients in the 28 days following a SARS-CoV-2 positive test.”

Vaccine = +2-10 myocarditis events

COVID infection = +40 myocarditis events

And…

“the increased risk of myocarditis associated with the two mRNA vaccines was present only in those younger than 40.”

I don’t see how you justify saying that the vaccine risk outweighs the risk form infection. That increase in myocarditis from vaccines was only present in men under 40 but the increase was still less than the increase from the virus.

Re: Myocarditis Cases Reported After mRNA-Based Covid-19 Vaccination

#63

Post by disambiguation »

wusher wrote: post #16
assbuttbuttass wrote: post #2

It's important to mention that catching COVID also causes myocarditis https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7035e5.htm Edit: this article says out of 192 405 448 people, 1626 had myocarditis, or about 0.0008%. In contrast, the CDC estimates COVID has a 0.146% chance to give you myocarditis.

I don't have the numbers to answer this but which groups are getting myocarditis also matters. If covid causes myocarditis in 1 out of 100 people in an age group prone to myocarditis, but mRNA causes myocarditis in 15 out of 1000 people in an age group that doesn't get myocarditis, then then we should be very concerned about the mRNA myocarditis and adjust our policies accordingly. Again, I made up those numbers and…

Prior reports have done this examination

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0

> the increased risk of myocarditis after vaccination was higher in persons aged under 40 years. We estimated extra myocarditis events to be between 1 and 10 per million persons in the month following vaccination, which was substantially lower than the 40 extra events per million persons observed following SARS-CoV-2 infection.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.23.21268276v...

> Despite more myocarditis events occurring in older persons, the risk following COVID-19 vaccination was largely restricted to younger males aged less than 40 years, where the risks of myocarditis following vaccination and infection were similar. However, the notable exception was that in younger males receiving a second dose of mRNA-1273 vaccine, the risk of myocarditis was higher following vaccination than infection, with an additional 101 events estimated following a second dose of mRNA-1273 vaccine compared to 7 events following a positive SARS-CoV-2 test.

Re: Myocarditis Cases Reported After mRNA-Based Covid-19 Vaccination

#64

Post by gkfasdfasdf »

tchalla wrote: post #4

> To be clear: whoever gets heart inflammation from Moderna would’ve almost certainly got it worse from Covid. The issue arises from the spike protein itself. That’s why we don’t see myocarditis from non-MRNA vaccines like Astra Zeneca. https://twitter.com/joshzepps/status/1486213480823017472?s=2... Edit : Consider readied the entire Twitter thread. https://www.abc.net.au/radio/sydney/programs/afternoons/myoc... > It…

Re: question of why the spike protein from mRNA vaccines shows increased risk of heart inflammation vs AZ vaccine, I listened to the entire interview with Raj Puranik [0], and it's still not clear to me why. He said comparing side-effect profiles of different vaccines is challenging because the dosage and delivery are so different. I.e. mRNA is given over 3 weeks while AZ is given over months.

[0]: https://abcmedia.akamaized.net/radio/local_sydney/audio/2022...

Re: Myocarditis Cases Reported After mRNA-Based Covid-19 Vaccination

#65

Post by lern_too_spel »

disambiguation wrote: post #63
wusher wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have the numbers to answer this but which groups are getting myocarditis also matters. If covid causes myocarditis in 1 out of 100 people in an age group prone to myocarditis, but mRNA causes myocarditis in 15 out of 1000 people in an age group that doesn't get myocarditis, then then we should be very concerned about the mRNA myocarditis and adjust our policies accordingly. Again, I made up those numbers and…

Prior reports have done this examination https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0 > the increased risk of myocarditis after vaccination was higher in persons aged under 40 years. We estimated extra myocarditis events to be between 1 and 10 per million persons in the month following vaccination, which was substantially lower than the 40 extra events per million persons observed following SARS-CoV-2 infection…

mRNA-1273 is the Moderna vaccine. As your quotation notes, that same age group shows no significant difference in myocarditis risk following infection versus following the Pfizer vaccine. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/medrxiv/early/2021/12/25/202...

Re: Myocarditis Cases Reported After mRNA-Based Covid-19 Vaccination

#66

Post by brandon272 »

kaczordon wrote: post #58
brandon272 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems weirdly selective to point to "over time it is 0%" ... well yes, I assume that if I never get another vaccination that at some point in time I may be susceptible to COVID. What this study does show is that with a booster shot you are offered significant immunity against COVID, including omicron. I'll take 50 or 60% over 0% any day of the week. I am incredibly grateful for the vaccines, which have done (and cont…

What this study does show is that with a booster shot you are offered significant immunity against COVID, including omicron. The confidence interval is between 10%-60% for the booster, oddly selective of you to pick the highest number. The FDA standard is to have at least 50% VE, with lower bound CI >30% for EUA. What this study does show is that immunity is trending down and will likely hit 0 within a few months onc…

> In addition to this it is well known now that for men under 40 the risk of myocarditis from the vaccine outweighs the risk from the virus

Absolutely false as noted by the other reply to this comment.

Re: Myocarditis Cases Reported After mRNA-Based Covid-19 Vaccination

#67

Post by peteradio »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #57
peteradio wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> vaccinated vs unvaccinated. Unvaccinated is two groups that are wildly different: Those who've had Covid and those who haven't. Depending on where you are, unvaccinated may be majority share recovered, in which case this is an incorrect statement: > It's more uncommon to get symptomatic covid in vaccinated vs unvaccinated.

That statement is still true if you split by those who have had Covid and those who haven't. In both groups, those who have been vaccinated are less likely to get symptomatic covid.

According to which study? During Delta it did not appear to be significant difference.

Re: Myocarditis Cases Reported After mRNA-Based Covid-19 Vaccination

#68

Post by mrguyorama »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #56
wusher wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have the numbers to answer this but which groups are getting myocarditis also matters. If covid causes myocarditis in 1 out of 100 people in an age group prone to myocarditis, but mRNA causes myocarditis in 15 out of 1000 people in an age group that doesn't get myocarditis, then then we should be very concerned about the mRNA myocarditis and adjust our policies accordingly. Again, I made up those numbers and…

They're very likely to be causing myocarditis through the same mechanism involving the spike protein, which means your scenario is unlikely. Myocarditis prevalence among college athletes who have recovered from a COVID-19 infection (even asymptomatic) is so high that some conferences require comprehensive cardiac testing before they can return to play. https://www.thecardiologyadvisor.com/general-cardiology/hear... E…

I was not told to not exert myself when I got my 2 doses. I was however told that if I experienced any negative symptoms, just nap through it essentially.

Re: Myocarditis Cases Reported After mRNA-Based Covid-19 Vaccination

#69

Post by newbamboo »

brandon272 wrote: post #55
gameswithgo wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With omicron it is not uncommon. Family of 4, all of us vaccinated to the max, we all got it. Also my brother, many neighbors.

In my larger extended family, we are also vaccinated "to the max". None of us have gotten it. These anecdotes don't mean a lot.

Anecdotes become data at large n sizes. :) Also, if you’re theoretically vaccinated, wouldn’t that mean you don’t display symptoms if you contract the virus? Your family may have gotten omicron but the vaxx was effective and so you didn’t get sick enough to notice. That’s what the expert consensus, viz that the vaxx is effective, would predict, right?

Re: Myocarditis Cases Reported After mRNA-Based Covid-19 Vaccination

#70

Post by cameldrv »

mgamache wrote: post #10
assbuttbuttass wrote: post #2

It's important to mention that catching COVID also causes myocarditis https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7035e5.htm Edit: this article says out of 192 405 448 people, 1626 had myocarditis, or about 0.0008%. In contrast, the CDC estimates COVID has a 0.146% chance to give you myocarditis.

It's also true that VAERS may be underreporting cases.

Vaccine Safety Datalink is a much better source.
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