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The case against masks at school

theatlantic.com

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Re: The case against masks at school

#181

Post by brimble »

skrbjc wrote: post #125
zdragnar wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been exposed to covid-positive people multiple times in my home (each time they found out they were positive after), no masking involved. I get tested after each exposure and have yet to get it either. Wearing masks and not catching covid is like wearing a bandana and not getting into a bike accident. It is an extremely contagious aerosolized virus that cloth masks simply aren't sufficient to stop. Meanwhile, th…

Funnily enough, I've seen many people riding bikes in the street with no helmet, but wearing a cloth mask.

I've found myself leaving them on on the walk back to the car a whole lot more now that it's Winter. Zero extra safety, but it keeps the face warm.

Re: The case against masks at school

#182

Post by johnnyb9 »

TameAntelope wrote: post #133
nradov wrote: post #121

There is no valid scientific or medical basis to mandate masks at school. It's pure scientism and politics. For anyone who believes that mask mandates should continue please take the time to educate yourself by listening to this panel discussion by a group of leading physicians. UCSF professor and infectious disease expert Dr. Monica Gandhi explains the current science very clearly. https://peterattiamd.com/covid-par…

What? Do masks reduce infection rates? If yes, mandates work. If no, mandates don’t. Spoiler: they do. [0] This is pants-on-head stupid, and has nothing at all to do with politics. Mandates increase adoption rates of measures that are proven to help, and trying to manipulate the situation to say otherwise is the problem, not the mandate. Anyone opposing masking in schools at this point is literally choosing to risk k…

If the childhood mortality risk associated with Covid is comparable to the flu (which seems to be the case) why weren't we masking every child before Covid?

Re: The case against masks at school

#183

Post by elsonrodriguez »

There have been numerous studies showing that mechanically N95 and equivalent masks can greatly reduce the emission of coronavirus and influenza, and can also greatly reduce the intake of coronavirus-sized particles.

That's why these types of articles always focus on mask mandate effectiveness instead of mask effectiveness. How many schools with mask mandates also have their lunch indoors with poor ventilation? Can you wear a mask while eating? How many have their noses sticking out all day? How many are wearing cloth masks?

It's like having a kid constantly getting pinkeye from not wiping their ass properly, and then saying toilet paper is pointless, instead of teaching the kid how to wipe and wash properly.

Re: The case against masks at school

#184

Post by TameAntelope »

johnnyb9 wrote: post #182
TameAntelope wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? Do masks reduce infection rates? If yes, mandates work. If no, mandates don’t. Spoiler: they do. [0] This is pants-on-head stupid, and has nothing at all to do with politics. Mandates increase adoption rates of measures that are proven to help, and trying to manipulate the situation to say otherwise is the problem, not the mandate. Anyone opposing masking in schools at this point is literally choosing to risk k…

If the childhood mortality risk associated with Covid is comparable to the flu (which seems to be the case) why weren't we masking every child before Covid?

Because the Covid mortality risk for children is already with masks, compared to without masks for the flu.

Also, there are considerations other than specifically a child's death that are relevant here, like who that child can spread it to and what negative longterm effects surviving COVID-19 carry, neither of which are as pronounced or unknown as with the flu.

But you knew that already, didn't you?

Re: The case against masks at school

#185

Post by amalcon »

restingrobot wrote: post #107
Avshalom wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But we have a vaccine.

Not for omicron, or the next variant, or the one after that. At some point we have to face reality, and no it is not eugenics, it called "life".

We do have several vaccines for Omicron. They are the existing COVID vaccines. They aren't as effective as they were against prior variants, but they're still more effective than e.g. flu vaccines, which save many lives each year.

Note that I don't agree with the eugenics comments, but this misinformation about the effectiveness of COVID vaccines is getting out of hand.

Re: The case against masks at school

#186

Post by hydrok9 »

mh- wrote: post #174
hydrok9 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not want to seek to diminish your very real belief that my issues are not real. But they are. My panic attacks in public started when I had to wear masks. When I am anxious or stressed, my breathing shallows. When this happens and I am wearing a mask, i have even less airflow coming in. I have tested this by simply lowering my mask, and examining how much air enters my nasal cavity. It is a huge difference. Or,…

I wonder if the shallowed breathing is a physiological response that only some of us experience while wearing masks. It could explain why there are two very different experiences for people when masked. I fortunately don't experience panic attacks from wearing a mask, but I will consistently get a headache from wearing one. And it's the same-feeling kind of headache I get from being in another enclosed space without…

It could be. To me it doesn't feel like there is a difference in the cadence of my breathing, after I put the mask on. I simply have less oxygen coming in. I probably should be breathing more deeply, all the time! Then perhaps the mask wouldn't make a noticeable difference. But after a lifetime of dealing with anxiety, I've learned to trust my body. My mind can lie to me when im anxious, but my body generally doesn't.

Re: The case against masks at school

#187

Post by hydrok9 »

buzzert wrote: post #177
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[ EDIT: other commenters response to this comment made me go look up some original research on the topic. As a result, I fully retract what I've said below. I found several papers that report substantial restrictions of airflow from wearing a correctly fitted N95 mask. I was wrong, and I apologize for the misinformation. I did try to explicitly say that I was not doubting someone's experiences, but I apologize for ap…

Blood-oxygen level is not relevant when it comes to mental well-being. I have the exact same problem as the parent commenter. I've tried exercising with a mask (cloth and surgical), and it feels like getting waterboarded (because the mask inevitably becomes soaked in sweat). It causes a great amount of anxiety for me, and literally feels like torture. I don't care about what lung volume/blood oxygen "studies" say.

Thank you

Re: The case against masks at school

#188

Post by hammock »

subsubzero wrote: post #155
spookthesunset wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For two years we’ve been asked to park our problems and to act like literally all that matters is the spread of Covid. Nothing else matters. Just a myopic fixation on the spread of one highly infectious respiratory virus. Even a year after vaccines we are still being asked to treat Covid like it is the #1 priority in our lives. More important than our well being, our mental health, our communities, our children, or a…

The north star for most countries and cities has always been cases over hospitalizations or deaths. With vaccine intake high in most developed countries a covid infection is like a cold or a bad flu for some. I think the time has come to rethink this goal of cases being a metric to shut down everything and let society return to some sense of normalcy while still maintaining a safety mandate for those with special con…

Sounds like you are on a path to awakening so I don't want to discourage you, but it might be worth sharing additional data and context to parts of your comment.

>With vaccine intake high in most developed countries a covid infection is like a cold or a bad flu for some.

That may be more driven by the mildness of Omicron than it is by the protective effect of the vaccine. For example, the latest data show that vaccinated (but not boosted) are getting sick and dying at higher rates than unvaccinated. One source (14 per 100k vs 10 per 100k): https://publichealthscotland.scot/media/11318/22-01-26-covid...

>Another thing to note, the CDC has mentioned that cloth masks are not effective against omnicron

This is something that is in all likelihood not variant-specific. In other words, cloth masks were always ineffective, however with the increased transmissibility of Omicron, this fact of ineffectiveness has become readily apparent.

Re: The case against masks at school

#189

Post by [deleted] »

TameAntelope wrote: post #184
johnnyb9 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the childhood mortality risk associated with Covid is comparable to the flu (which seems to be the case) why weren't we masking every child before Covid?

Because the Covid mortality risk for children is already with masks, compared to without masks for the flu. Also, there are considerations other than specifically a child's death that are relevant here, like who that child can spread it to and what negative longterm effects surviving COVID-19 carry, neither of which are as pronounced or unknown as with the flu. But you knew that already, didn't you?

[deleted]

Re: The case against masks at school

#190

Post by TurkishPoptart »

TameAntelope wrote: post #164
cheeseomlit wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The chance of a child dying from coronavirus is infinitesimal, the response should be proportional.

It's only infinitesimal due to all of the precautions being taken. Remove those precautions, and more children will die. Also pretty great, you're cool with a couple dozen kids dying because otherwise some kids might be mildly inconvenienced by wearing a mask. The discomfort is infinitesimal, the response should be proportional.

More children dealing with Covidism (it's a cult at this point) enforced in schools are going to off themselves from the psychological abuse of being denied a social life than will be saved by enforcing cloth mask policy.
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