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The case against masks at school

theatlantic.com

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Re: The case against masks at school

#161

Post by TameAntelope »

jdminhbg wrote: post #154
TameAntelope wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s absolutely a strike against them, considering all of that does not apply to normal cloth masks intentionally. The makers of this mask deliberately choose to make a product that does not improve collective safety, and that malicious attitude deserves to be jailed, not rewarded.

No, it absolutely applies to normal cloth masks. In fact, as far as I can tell, that disclaimer is simply copied and pasted from other sites selling cloth masks, for example: https://teepublic.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360047284753...

It does not apply to "normal" cloth masks, and it's deliberately misleading to say otherwise, because if it were true about "normal" cloth masks, then these masks would not be more breathable.

Re: The case against masks at school

#162

Post by jiveturkey »

nradov wrote: post #121

There is no valid scientific or medical basis to mandate masks at school. It's pure scientism and politics. For anyone who believes that mask mandates should continue please take the time to educate yourself by listening to this panel discussion by a group of leading physicians. UCSF professor and infectious disease expert Dr. Monica Gandhi explains the current science very clearly. https://peterattiamd.com/covid-par…

> scientism

Thanks for that.

Re: The case against masks at school

#163

Post by hydrok9 »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #158
hydrok9 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about if you have anxiety issues and the reduced inflow of air from masks gives you panic attacks? This has been my life for this pandemic. I take medication but it does not stop them 100% from happening, and I have to use anti-anxiety techniques most times I put one on to stop from being overwhelmed by anticipation. Does anyone care about people like me? It sure feels like they don't. And I have seen my physical…

[ EDIT: other commenters response to this comment made me go look up some original research on the topic. As a result, I fully retract what I've said below. I found several papers that report substantial restrictions of airflow from wearing a correctly fitted N95 mask. I was wrong, and I apologize for the misinformation. I did try to explicitly say that I was not doubting someone's experiences, but I apologize for ap…

I do not want to seek to diminish your very real belief that my issues are not real. But they are. My panic attacks in public started when I had to wear masks. When I am anxious or stressed, my breathing shallows. When this happens and I am wearing a mask, i have even less airflow coming in. I have tested this by simply lowering my mask, and examining how much air enters my nasal cavity. It is a huge difference. Or, I should say, it makes a huge difference to my mental state, even if the change in oxygen is relatively small.

My psychiatrist, therapist and gp all confirmed this. Frankly, you should trust people with these actual conditions. We are living it, you aren't.

Re: The case against masks at school

#164

Post by TameAntelope »

cheeseomlit wrote: post #149
TameAntelope wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? Do masks reduce infection rates? If yes, mandates work. If no, mandates don’t. Spoiler: they do. [0] This is pants-on-head stupid, and has nothing at all to do with politics. Mandates increase adoption rates of measures that are proven to help, and trying to manipulate the situation to say otherwise is the problem, not the mandate. Anyone opposing masking in schools at this point is literally choosing to risk k…

The chance of a child dying from coronavirus is infinitesimal, the response should be proportional.

It's only infinitesimal due to all of the precautions being taken. Remove those precautions, and more children will die.

Also pretty great, you're cool with a couple dozen kids dying because otherwise some kids might be mildly inconvenienced by wearing a mask.

The discomfort is infinitesimal, the response should be proportional.

Re: The case against masks at school

#165

Post by gglitch »

throwaway22032 wrote: post #102
criddell wrote: post #15

My kids attend a university in Canada and live in residence on campus. They have had incredibly strict rules around masking and gatherings. It's clear that they are only considering one variable - number of infections - and it seems like they aren't considering any other factors. For example, in the dorm there is a common area with a piano. Because of COVID, playing that piano is banned. Even if there was a reasonabl…

This is the fundamental issue with coronavirus mitigation measures. There are circumstances in which "drop everything" makes sense - if coronavirus were ten times more fatal, we'd do it naturally. But in general, looking at life from a perspective of "what is the minimum possible quality of life we can have" is depressing and fundamentally incompatible with the human spirit. I tend to think that people who operate in…

> Like, yeah, I will take the risk of contracting coronavirus to play the piano, because I want the piano in my life.

I'm sympathetic to your point (and I love to play piano), but I can't help but ask, if we slightly reword your claim: would you be willing to take responsibility for spreading coronavirus to n other people so you can play the piano?

Edit, to be clear: I'm not talking about the piano, or surface transmission; I'm talking about the values.

Re: The case against masks at school

#166

Post by jdminhbg »

TameAntelope wrote: post #161
jdminhbg wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it absolutely applies to normal cloth masks. In fact, as far as I can tell, that disclaimer is simply copied and pasted from other sites selling cloth masks, for example: https://teepublic.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360047284753...

It does not apply to "normal" cloth masks, and it's deliberately misleading to say otherwise, because if it were true about "normal" cloth masks, then these masks would not be more breathable.

I don’t know how to be more clear that the disclaimer is the same than to link you to a site selling normal cloth masks with the exact same disclaimer.

Re: The case against masks at school

#167

Post by mh- »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #158
hydrok9 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about if you have anxiety issues and the reduced inflow of air from masks gives you panic attacks? This has been my life for this pandemic. I take medication but it does not stop them 100% from happening, and I have to use anti-anxiety techniques most times I put one on to stop from being overwhelmed by anticipation. Does anyone care about people like me? It sure feels like they don't. And I have seen my physical…

[ EDIT: other commenters response to this comment made me go look up some original research on the topic. As a result, I fully retract what I've said below. I found several papers that report substantial restrictions of airflow from wearing a correctly fitted N95 mask. I was wrong, and I apologize for the misinformation. I did try to explicitly say that I was not doubting someone's experiences, but I apologize for ap…

Genuine question- how is that actually possible?

Surely there is, at minimum, an unstated variable here like "effort required to inhale the same volume of air"? Or the composition of the air?

I'm not an expert in this area, but as someone who "feels" like I'm getting less oxygen and is willing to consider that my body is tricking me, help me understand.

edit: I shouldn't have to say this, but I'll mention I'm vaccinated+boosted and have complied with the mask mandates. I just don't understand these unintuitive claims.

Re: The case against masks at school

#168

Post by stewbrew »

nradov wrote: post #152
stewbrew wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people play music, they sing. Singing in a crowded room isn't really a good idea when there is an infectious visus around.

The virus will always be around. Are you proposing a permanent ban on singing?

I'm not proposing anything. I was just trying to give a possible rational for this rule.

Re: The case against masks at school

#169

Post by jonpurdy »

occamrazor wrote: post #11
tenuousemphasis wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being sarcastic, right? If not, that's the entire point. These are designed to fail any tests but cursory visual inspection.

At first I thought that the website was sarcastic. But they are unironically selling those “unmasks” without making it clear that they are as useful as a fishnet mask.

Bonus points for ingenuity, I guess? /s

As a non-American considering going through the Green Card process and with an American-born daughter, stuff like this dampens my enthusiasm for living here long term. I guess the USA is just a place with an enormous spectrum of opinions...

Re: The case against masks at school

#170

Post by standardUser »

spookthesunset wrote: post #111
throwaway22032 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the fundamental issue with coronavirus mitigation measures. There are circumstances in which "drop everything" makes sense - if coronavirus were ten times more fatal, we'd do it naturally. But in general, looking at life from a perspective of "what is the minimum possible quality of life we can have" is depressing and fundamentally incompatible with the human spirit. I tend to think that people who operate in…

For two years we’ve been asked to park our problems and to act like literally all that matters is the spread of Covid. Nothing else matters. Just a myopic fixation on the spread of one highly infectious respiratory virus. Even a year after vaccines we are still being asked to treat Covid like it is the #1 priority in our lives. More important than our well being, our mental health, our communities, our children, or a…

I have to assume you live on the West Coast. I have spent a couple months in and around SF during pandemic, but I live in NYC and have travelled to many other places.

The West Coast experience seems to be a singularly restrictive experience. I'd hesitate to assume the entire nation is experiencing things the same way as you describe them (they are not). Though it does seem like many students across the nation are getting the super-restrictive experience as well.

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