The case against masks at school • Hacker News Board

Re: The case against masks at school

#41

Post by teepark » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 5:11 PM UTC

kart23 wrote: post #27

usefulcat wrote: post #19

The article talks a lot about how there's little or no evidence showing benefits of masking for kids, and also talks a lot about the unknown long-term effects of masking on kids. However, as with so many articles trying to make a point or persuade people, it barely mentions at all the unknown long-term effects of covid. I'm willing to be persuaded by evidence, but (for me) any piece that fails to address such an obvi…

Thats not what the article is about. The article is showing the lack of evidence for masks at schools. If transmission isn't impacted by masks, then the severity of covid has nothing to do with the decision of whether to require masks or not.

But while it points out that the evidence for masks being effective is scarce, it does little to identify positive evidence that masks are specifically ineffective. So we just don't know as much as CDC's consistent guidelines seem to suggest, and it makes sense to weigh the risk. That the article neglects to frame it in this light highlights the one-sided nature.

Re: The case against masks at school

#42

Post by JasonFruit » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 5:11 PM UTC

zemvpferreira wrote: post #24

throwaway22032 wrote: post #21

The case against masks is quite trivial and generalizable across most industries. Today, a teacher now has two realistic options: a) self-isolate indefinitely, either teaching remotely or quitting their job b) contract coronavirus at some point Given that, masks are an irrelevance. A teacher who is clinically vulnerable and unwilling to roll the dice is left only with the option to quit their job, regardless of wheth…

I mix in society, wear masks everywhere, and have yet to contract coronavirus.

c) get lucky

Re: The case against masks at school

#43

Post by mandmandam » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 5:11 PM UTC

aeternum wrote: post #20

criddell wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a mostly positive opinion on the CDC and I wonder if some of the problems are a result of political influence? The WHO and their fight against the idea that COVID is airborne is even more confusing to me. It felt like they didn't even want the idea discussed.

What gives you a positive opinion of the CDC? By their own admission they have lied to the public multiple times. That's not something that is indicative of good leadership, even if supposedly done for benevolent reasons.

A million times this.

Break it up and scatter it to the four winds. Being heavily taxed for the "privilege" of being lied to is anathema to democracy, even if all the cool politicians, media, fossil fuel and arms companies are doing it.

Re: The case against masks at school

#44

Post by dennis_moore » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 5:11 PM UTC

usefulcat wrote: post #19

The article talks a lot about how there's little or no evidence showing benefits of masking for kids, and also talks a lot about the unknown long-term effects of masking on kids. However, as with so many articles trying to make a point or persuade people, it barely mentions at all the unknown long-term effects of covid. I'm willing to be persuaded by evidence, but (for me) any piece that fails to address such an obvi…

You wouldn't expect an article that talks about the long-term effects of COVID to also address the downsides of mask and restrictions, so why should the opposite be true? You can read independent arguments for both sides of the issue, judge their strengths and weaknesses, and then make up your own mind.

Re: The case against masks at school

#45

Post by margalabargala » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 5:12 PM UTC

andreareina wrote: post #4

fifteenforty wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What type of mask is she wearing?

I'm a former asthmatic. Even cloth masks are restrictive enough that they'd have been an issue for me.

I actually have the opposite experience with my exercise-induced asthma.

It's quite dry and cold where I am currently, due to winter. Wearing a cloth mask increases the temperature and humidity of the air I breathe when working hard, and makes it less likely that asthma will be triggered.

It's a significant enough effect that I will sometimes wear a cloth mask specifically for this effect when doing something strenuous outdoors.

Re: The case against masks at school

#46

Post by endymi0n » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 5:12 PM UTC

usefulcat wrote: post #19

The article talks a lot about how there's little or no evidence showing benefits of masking for kids, and also talks a lot about the unknown long-term effects of masking on kids. However, as with so many articles trying to make a point or persuade people, it barely mentions at all the unknown long-term effects of covid. I'm willing to be persuaded by evidence, but (for me) any piece that fails to address such an obvi…

While your point is spot on, it probably won‘t matter in the long run. With the infection rate of Omicron, we as a society were faced between even more ridiculously restrictive measures to contain it after the first economy destroying measures — or just taking the jump into the unknown unknown of what will happen if we let everyone get infected and move into the endemic state.

With probably only the exception of China, most countries have decided that they will take the latter path, at various degrees of throttling.

Re: The case against masks at school

#47

Post by abfan1127 » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 5:12 PM UTC

criddell wrote: post #15

My kids attend a university in Canada and live in residence on campus. They have had incredibly strict rules around masking and gatherings. It's clear that they are only considering one variable - number of infections - and it seems like they aren't considering any other factors. For example, in the dorm there is a common area with a piano. Because of COVID, playing that piano is banned. Even if there was a reasonabl…

its the public health equivalent of the broken window fallacy.

Re: The case against masks at school

#48

Post by mdorazio » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 5:12 PM UTC

zemvpferreira wrote: post #24

throwaway22032 wrote: post #21

The case against masks is quite trivial and generalizable across most industries. Today, a teacher now has two realistic options: a) self-isolate indefinitely, either teaching remotely or quitting their job b) contract coronavirus at some point Given that, masks are an irrelevance. A teacher who is clinically vulnerable and unwilling to roll the dice is left only with the option to quit their job, regardless of wheth…

I mix in society, wear masks everywhere, and have yet to contract coronavirus.

You have yet to get coronavirus. There’s a pretty good chance that you will before the year is out. Omicron is extremely infectious even among the fully vaccinated. For example, among my friends group all of us are fully vaccinated and boosted, and so far 60% have gotten omicron despite wearing masks in public, washing hands frequently, etc. I expect further mutations in the future will probably happen and similarly reduce vaccine effectiveness in preventing infection.

Re: The case against masks at school

#49

Post by tsycho » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 5:13 PM UTC

sul_tasto wrote: post #5

aidenn0 wrote: post #2

I live somewhere with mild winters so the schools don't have any hallways (the classrooms just open to the outside). This meant that kids could at least get a break from masking between classes. However, after coming back from winter break, the schools started mandating masks outside as well as in, and including during PE class. As you can imagine, my asthmatic daughter was not pleased.

perhaps an unmask would be helpful: https://www.getunmask.com/

From their website (About/Disclaimer):

_The Unmask is not designed or intended to prevent, mitigate, treat, diagnose or cure any disease or health condition, including COVID-19/Coronavirus. Unmasks are intended for general public use only. They are non-sterile and are not intended for use in any clinical or surgical setting or where exposure to bodily or hazardous fluids may be expected, where the risk of exposure through inhalation is high, or near intense heat or flammable gas. Unmasks are not surgical masks, personal protective equipment, or filtering respirators (such as N95 masks)._

Basically, it seems like a soft, breathable mask.....but they make no claims that they will significantly reduce your chances of catching Covid from someone nearby. That said, if the only goal is to meet masking requirements in public places, then it "works".

Re: The case against masks at school

#50

Post by scatters » Thu, Jan 27, 2022, 5:13 PM UTC

zemvpferreira wrote: post #24

throwaway22032 wrote: post #21

The case against masks is quite trivial and generalizable across most industries. Today, a teacher now has two realistic options: a) self-isolate indefinitely, either teaching remotely or quitting their job b) contract coronavirus at some point Given that, masks are an irrelevance. A teacher who is clinically vulnerable and unwilling to roll the dice is left only with the option to quit their job, regardless of wheth…

I mix in society, wear masks everywhere, and have yet to contract coronavirus.

How do you know that? Unless you've been taking PCR tests at least weekly, it's more likely that you've had at least one asymptomatic infection.