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Ask HN: Why the obsession with note taking?

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Re: Ask HN: Why the obsession with note taking?

#121
Others have pointed out in this thread why note-taking is taken seriously by many. Those comments are directly related to note-taking. This one isn't.

All of us were trained in many disciplines, and in one (or two) disciplines in depth.

It is very easy to wrap your head around the idea that you need training to manipulate numbers, mathematical symbols, etc. We also take for granted the fact that we need prolonged training to understand the history of the Civil War or the Roman Empire or understand the geography of regions.

But nobody notices that there is one thing largely absent in our curricula- self-management. How to think, how to make decisions, how to manage your time, how to make yourself be efficient without driving yourself mad, and so on.

Our brains, our bodies were not evolved for knowledge work. We we hunter-gatherers a few thousand years back. The industrial revolution, and the ones came after the first one did not change our bodies or brain. We need to actively learn how to do knowledge-work and learning efficiently.

And this is not modern. Many accomplished individuals had well-thought-out systems to do work. These are detailed in biographies of the likes of Einstein, Da Vinci, Feynman, etc.

Why this was not the phenomena?

Before, a very small percentage of the population even needed to think about these. Because the sheer number of knowledge workers were very very low. Now, knowledge work has expanded beyond the few with no large scale training program available for everyone.

So, this craze on note-taking is merely a symptom of people seeking to solve modern problems in a structured manner.

This is why the Getting Things Done book or Deep Work book gets a lot of mentions in Hacker News books lists. People want to solve these problems.

Re: Ask HN: Why the obsession with note taking?

#122
Notetaking is a popular topic because it is an utterly unsolved problem. The early ideas of computing envisioned computers as augmentation of the mind, [1] where automation would enhance our insights in the same way that writing augmented the insights of people in the antiquity.

However, all we got are lame attempts to replicate pen and paper in terms of annotation, with the only real improvement is instant text search, with very limited capabilities for incorporating meta data into queries. Where are the automated mind maps, statistics about how frequently you use terms in your discipline, inference of the times of day where we think about each topic...?

A programmer could built their own tools for that, but there is no standardized way to do them, it takes a lot of effort, there's no way to share the best practices that others use to their benefit; the best we've got is subchanels at Slack. And of course, all those capabilities are off-limits to end users.

Note taking tools are only now starting to explore those possibilities beyond the raw text file on hierarchical folders.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augmented_cognition

Re: Ask HN: Why the obsession with note taking?

#123
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Memory can be improved with 2000-year-old techniques like memory palaces. This doesn't replace note-taking, but low-latency cache can improve synthesis and note quality.

does that actually work though?

It works but it can be limited in how useful it is and what information you can store. Great if you want to recall larger numbers of ordered or unordered simple items, not as much if you want to use it for remembering notes on every useful book or article you read.

Re: Ask HN: Why the obsession with note taking?

#124
post #75

It isn't about note taking, it's about supporting a brain that simply isn't capable of retaining the level of information that we have to deal with. The ultimate note taking device is actually an augmented human brain that has perfect recollection and organisation. In the mean time the note taking apps help with: Working memory - a page can hold far more information than I can retain in my working memory. Having a bu…

Memory can be improved with 2000-year-old techniques like memory palaces. This doesn't replace note-taking, but low-latency cache can improve synthesis and note quality.

Memory palaces work when you want to be able to recall a whole list of things.

But for arbitrary random lookups (by some associative key), does it also work?

That's also what note taking software is about, to easily search through the notes, and find related notes. I'm not sure if such interlinks are supported well by memory palaces.

Re: Ask HN: Why the obsession with note taking?

#125
I'm interested in note-taking / improving the way we learn for the following reasons:

- Having a trace of what I've learned that I can go back to. I consume loads of content (books, articles, etc...) and want to be able to use their insights in my future discoveries and general creative process. Being able to go through my ideas in my notes helps with this.

- that point links back to the idea of optimizing for discovery. I find that I can find much better ideas when I have a nuanced perspective and can oppose different content, so having an organized knowledge base allows me to link and discover new hierarchies in my thinking to enhance it. It's also why I'm building tools to automate connections between notes with AI, and it's why my knowledge base is heavily integrated with content I consume online, for example this post that I can now search in my knowledge.

- I think there's untapped value in sharing notes and tidbits of knowledge with other people. Blog posts take more time and have different aims than notes, but notes are also valuable / can be useful for others. My public wiki is at https://knowledge.uzpg.me

- having a time-logged track of what I've been learning: I like tracking my goals / progression (for eg yearly reviews https://www.uzpg.me/general/2022/01/01/a-year-in-review-v2.h...) and going through my knowledge base helps with this

Re: Ask HN: Why the obsession with note taking?

#126
I started typing insights when I became a parent - as a “What should they know one day” kinda tool. Then I became obsessive about collecting resources and insights I get when reading or talking to people. Your writing and insights is the only thing that’s left of your brain after you pass (even if that happens 50 years from now).

Some people do daily journaling - not me, but possibly many here. Some see it as therapy - laying out what bothers you, or what you’re grateful for, to share with someone or put it away. Some use it as a way to get anxiety and stress out of your head by extracting down what needs done where and taking it out of your active memory. The Getting Things Done method.

A lot of people have writing as a way of relieving FOMO if your mind is much faster than your ability to articulate all of your thoughts. Call it ADHD, or a way to brainstorm with yourself - you surface your thoughts in front of you and can then edit and manipulate them - see if and what parts make sense, or if it’s just a nebulous cloud of general ideas that melts down when you read it as if it’s told to you by someone else. For that you need a really fast, possibly visual tool like Figma or Remarkable (I find figma easier to re-organize) or Visio (expensive) or a white board.

So the use cases are very wide range and no single tool yet can cover them - mostly because you need either low latency, or high ability to organize, or ways of manipulating data visually, or search, or ability to ensure your external brain software will be alive in 2 years (aka open source), or available on all of your devices to capture anywhere anytime. One requirement steps on the others usually.

Re: Ask HN: Why the obsession with note taking?

#127
post #97

I mostly abandonded keeping notes, bookmarks etc because I realised it became another "collecting" exercise and sucked up time far in excess of it's utility. I make specific exceptions (especially for things that may be of use to others) but I become too addicted to the act of collating and organising. Gmail with it's "search don't sort" was an eye opener back in the day. I stopped filing emails and realised with a d…

> I realised it became another "collecting" exercise and sucked up time far in excess of it's utility.

That's because the tools to exploit that collection suck. If we had processes generating statistics on your data and organizing them in practical streams of attention, it would be worthwhile to take that extra step in compiling them.

Re: Ask HN: Why the obsession with note taking?

#128
What's better than posts about note taking apps and note taking methodology is meta posts about note taking apps and note taking methodology!

More seriously though, it's a very central topic to the software world since many things in this world deal with how to work with information. And note taking is a very central thing when working with personal information.

Re: Ask HN: Why the obsession with note taking?

#129
I am not into writing notes. However I do write myself documentation and I also write a log book for how I configured servers (less necessary now I use ansible).

I frequently forget how I did some specific task or solved a particular problem or even how my own software libraries work.

Having something at hand (even doc comments) saves me the time of having to go through the same steps again.

Re: Ask HN: Why the obsession with note taking?

#130
post #97

I mostly abandonded keeping notes, bookmarks etc because I realised it became another "collecting" exercise and sucked up time far in excess of it's utility. I make specific exceptions (especially for things that may be of use to others) but I become too addicted to the act of collating and organising. Gmail with it's "search don't sort" was an eye opener back in the day. I stopped filing emails and realised with a d…

I frequently also send notes to myself as mails.

However, often when I actually search for sth in Gmail, I have trouble finding it because it is all unorganized. I only use tags very crudely so that often does not really help me.

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