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UBS Acquires Wealthfront for $1.4B

reuters.com

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Re: UBS Acquires Wealthfront for $1.4B

#291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A target date fund suffices for most people. And I would need evidence to believe that Wealthfront's fees are offset by the tax savings and increased complexity for 95% of people.

Not 95% of people but if you have capital gains from RSUs wealthfront losses can deduct from that. Not limited to $3k/year. However generally they harvest only a few % of your portfolio

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Re: UBS Acquires Wealthfront for $1.4B

#293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s more of an argument for how lots of individual holdings could beat an ETF, in USA anyway. If your commissions are free anyway. Lots of paperwork tho. For all I know, these robo-advisers just buy you ETFs.

I believe the discussion is about what Wealthfront is doing to earn their 0.25% fee. "Tax loss harvesting" seems unpersuasive.

At $100k AUM they start “direct indexing,” buying shares as well as ETFs. I only started in 2020 but so far they’ve harvested 3.6x their own fees. I would not have spent time doing that, so it’s gravy.

Re: UBS Acquires Wealthfront for $1.4B

#294
post #226
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While true, note that the effects of tax loss harvesting are really only significant for a few years after acquiring the asset (since stocks tend to go up over time), but you will pay the Wealthfront fee for the rest of your life (especially since they do direct indexing, which makes switching away complicated). And fwiw, tax loss harvesting sounds complicated, but it really isn't that hard to do. If I notice stocks…

> the effects of tax loss harvesting are really only significant for a few years after acquiring the asset (since stocks tend to go up over time) This is true only if you invest once in your life and then hold those assets forever. But if you invest every quarter then you can do TLH on those new lots individually. And since those new lots will keep coming, your TLH will always have something to work with.

> This is true only if you invest once in your life and then hold those assets forever. But if you invest every quarter then you can do TLH on those new lots individually. And since those new lots will keep coming, your TLH will always have something to work with.

That is true, but you pay a percentage fee on all of your assets (which is growing) to be able to TLH assets you've recently added (fairly static amount over time).

Re: UBS Acquires Wealthfront for $1.4B

#295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have planned to contribute $500K then presumably your plan involves making the money liquid with the necessary few days anticipation. Also, my Wealthfront account is offering me approximately 25% "Available to borrow". I haven't tried it yet but I assume I could grab that immediately and then sell stock to pay back the loan. I'm not challenging your claim that having a human financial advisor can be useful. I'…

I’m a mostly-happy Wealthfront user, but there’s a negative feature of the loan that I found out the hard way. I was having some medium-level renovations done on my house, and pushing the easy button to get some cash without liquidating investments sounded good to me. That worked great! But: WF would not let me add any more to my investment account until I paid the loan back in full! This wasn’t prominent, and I’d ha…

You can create a 2nd investment account and start contributing to that while making minimum payments against your loan.

Re: UBS Acquires Wealthfront for $1.4B

#296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do not even have to hold a variety of Vanguard funds, just figure out the year you aim to retire in and buy the target date retirement fund. https://investor.vanguard.com/investment-products/mutual-fun...

Target Retirement Funds sometimes hold non-ideal amount of cash. Also, make sure you are holding these in a tax-advantaged account https://401kspecialistmag.com/target-date-fund-providers-inv... .

I don’t quite understand the issue. Is there an ELI5 explanation?

Re: UBS Acquires Wealthfront for $1.4B

#297
post #290

Interesting, the figure does seem quite low to me. Boglehead passive investing has worked really well for the past dozen years. I expect the next 10-15 to be much more challenging given the extremely high starting valuations and end of the low interest rate and QE tailwind. I've been building algotrading models to help tackle the challenge of when to hedge at https://grizzlybulls.com

A couple questions about your service/models: 1. It seems likely your models work internally with probabilities vs binary buy/sell decisions. Why do you not have the option to expose this probability, vs just simple buy sell signal? I would think this would pair very nicely with asset allocation. Have you investigated performance when using a sliding asset adjustment (even if just sp500 future & cash) that correspond…

> I currently work overemployed at FAANG, capital accumulation focused

What does this mean?

Re: UBS Acquires Wealthfront for $1.4B

#298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have planned to contribute $500K then presumably your plan involves making the money liquid with the necessary few days anticipation. Also, my Wealthfront account is offering me approximately 25% "Available to borrow". I haven't tried it yet but I assume I could grab that immediately and then sell stock to pay back the loan. I'm not challenging your claim that having a human financial advisor can be useful. I'…

Having been through this a few times betterment at least did not have a way AT ALL to wire out any amount of money regardless of balance in the account. This caused an issue during a real estate transaction - somewhat to extremely painful. If wealthfront is offering an available to borrow that is perfect (for this issue). You do get to a point though where you are like - hey, can I transfer $x of stock to a donor adv…

I found betterment was also slow at even just transferring cash out of their accounts to other banks. Would not recommend them for anything that needs speed.

Re: UBS Acquires Wealthfront for $1.4B

#299
post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised to hear this take. I find Chase to be the best bank I've ever worked with -- personal accounts, business accounts, everything. Customer service is top notch. Website is great. I'd love to hear your choices for a top retail bank. Yes, i'm in the NY area, so true on branch location issue. But how often do you have to visit a branch if you have good systems? The branch is usually for when systems fail. Not…

Not op, but: The money lives at interactive brokers, the cash flows through etrade, wells Fargo has never met a mortgage it didn't want a piece of, and chase rents me a safe deposit box.

> The money lives at interactive brokers, the cash flows through etrade

Why use e-trade (or ibkr) at all in this situation? What does this whole thing mean?

Re: UBS Acquires Wealthfront for $1.4B

#300
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why go with wealthfront when you can buy a target date fund from vanguard? It gets you most of what you really need?

Even a few months ago, I was recommending the same to friends. But late in 2021, Vanguard unexpectedly hit all their Target Date funds with large tax bills: https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=366566 The speculation online is that it's because they lowered the minimum for their institution class funds, many large employer retirement funds sold their holdings of the non-institution funds, leaving eve…

Yikes. I have a fair amount of non-tax advantaged money in a target date fund. Not sure what I should do with it now. Hrmmm.
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