[deleted]
Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse
201–210 of 606 posts
Re: Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse
#202Earlier quoted context omitted.
>They may have some details wrong, but do you think their overall impression of the event is wildly inaccurate? The prosecutors do. None are being charged with insurrection nor terrorism, just trespassing and disorderly conduct.
> None are being charged with insurrection nor terrorism Haven't 11 Oath Keepers been charged with "seditious conspiracy"[1]? Does that not come under the definition of "insurrection" - "a violent uprising against an authority or government"? [1] "[If] two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by forc…
> Haven't 11 Oath Keepers been charged with "seditious conspiracy"[1]? Does that not come under the definition of "insurrection" - "a violent uprising against an authority or government"?
How many of these Oath Keeper individuals were directly led into this activity by FBI agents, CIs, "cutouts"/contractors, such as Ray Epps [1] and Stewart Rhodes[2]?
It appears that the recent charges of seditious conspiracy were in direct response to Darren Beattie's reporting of the coverup of Epps involvement, and Darren's drumbeat around Stewart Rhodes. This, after Darren uncovered FBI removing Ray Epps from the most-wanted list, hiding his name, and appearing to cover for their relationship with him during senate testimony.
[1] https://www.revolver.news/2021/10/meet-ray-epps-the-fed-prot...
[2] https://www.revolver.news/2021/06/stewart-rhodes-oath-keeper...
Re: Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse
#203As bad as twitter and Facebook censorship is, it's worse for other sites, like Reddit or probably any v-bulletin forum. Reddit subs have soooo much moderation, especially any sub that that is even slightly popular, so many arbitrary and hidden rules and content guidelines. On twitter I can call someone a jerk and the worst that may happen is the person may block me, but that will get your banned from many reddit subs…
Just adding onto this argument. Reddit moderators just don't know how to take criticism.
The lately famous /r/antiwork just had a moment. I tried to find the post where they were banning every dissenting opinion, but the thread got locked. Now the entire subreddit is locked. For reference here's a link to another subreddit locking a thread because the /r/antiwork mod got offended:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Cringetopia/comments/sd5cvd/banned_...
This was all because the mod couldn't handle the criticisms he took for being interviewed here:
Re: Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse
#204I don't think that this is really a "trust problem". It's more of a misattribution problem. People think they know what the "other side" is thinking, but they really don't.
Barely anyone "doubts the efficacy of coronavirus vaccines". This is a tiny, tiny, trivial minority.
The main arguments I come across are some combination of:
"coronavirus is a non issue for me, and so the efficacy of a vaccine is irrelevant"
"coronavirus is going to spread to everyone anyway, and therefore the efficacy of a vaccine (at reducing the spread) is irrelevant"
Given this, if you go at it from the angle of assuming that people think vaccines are salt water (or microchips or whatever) you're not going to get anywhere. Because what you _think_ people think, is not actually true.
Re: Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse
#205Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I still think CDC does good work. Just that the leadership needs to come out clean and apologize the public for being partisan. Why are you saying "partisan" rather than "incompetent" ? It's surely convenient to blame the institutional incompetence on a strawman "other side", but the fact of the matter is that under administrations from both Parties they've repeatedly dropped the ball. Distributing free rapid tests…
It was partisanry. Francis Collins (NIH Director) and Fauci from NSAID were afraid of appearing to support Trump's rhetoric of China-virus. So they doubled down on supression of information and completely shutdown any discussion in the entire scientific community regarding Lab Leak origins.
[deleted]
Re: Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse
#206You could argue that it is just another stage in 'Escape from Freedom'. I am going to simplify a lot here, but basically the process goes something like this: -Things are hard; people fight and win some degree of autonomy -Status quo sets in; people believe this is how it always will be -Things get easy and people forget what freedom is -Things get hard..
Sounds a lot like this saying that’s been going around the last few years: “Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” Side tangent- I tried to find the author of that quote thinking it has to be a ‘wise man’ of the past (given that it’s not a gender neutral statement), and it looks like that it’s actually from a post apocalyptic book from…
I am vaguely aware of the meme you are referring to, but I want to stress that the idea is not entirely new[1] and is often reduced to the following citation:
"We have been compelled to recognize that millions in Germany were as eager to surrender their freedom as their fathers were to fight for it; that instead of wanting freedom, they sought for ways of escape from it; that other millions were indifferent and did not believe the defense of freedom to be worth fighting and dying for."
I am saying that you are absolutely right that it is currently in a cultural spotlight of sorts, but it is hardly the whole story.
Re: Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse
#207Earlier quoted context omitted.
You could argue that one begets the other. I am not going to argue chicken an egg, but US has generally been very anti-government. If you poll Americans about their representatives, the responses are uniformly negative. And yet, we keep re-electing them in massive numbers. It is absolutely fascinating.
I was under the impression that Americans overwhelmingly disapprove of Congress as a whole, but the individual representatives are about as popular as you'd expect.
I can't really speak for the entire nation ( I can't even speak for my neighbors ), but I am sure not approving of my representatives.. I do, however, lack in willingness/drive/money to push for someone else, because that is the part of the equation that makes it genuinely hard to remove an entrenched bureaucrat.
And that does not even begin to discuss how easy local party representatives make it to run in IL.
Re: Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse
#208Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Reddit subs have soooo much moderation Moderation I can live with. If some mod doesn't want me on their sub, I find another. It's the admin hammer bans of the subs I found that I object to.
reddit admis have vastly more power than fakebook or twitter content moderators. for one, reddit does not outsource their moderation.
> reddit does not outsource their moderation.
Huh? Just because they pay nothing for it doesn't mean it isn't outsourced. It's totally outsourced.
Re: Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse
#209Earlier quoted context omitted.
That exactly is the trust problem. Why would trustworthy people even try to gain power, if the public assumes that those in power are untrustworthy and corrupt? And why would those in power remain trustworthy when the incentives are clearly in favor of abusing your power and the public assumes that you will do that anyway? It's a vicious cycle, but a virtuous cycle would also work in the same way. Reality shapes peop…
> That exactly is the trust problem. Why would trustworthy people even try to gain power, if the public assumes that those in power are untrustworthy and corrupt? To improve society. > And why would those in power remain trustworthy when the incentives are clearly in favor of abusing your power and the public assumes that you will do that anyway? They were never trustworthy to begin with if they do that. Trustworthy…
> > Why would trustworthy people even try to gain power
> To improve society.
Is gaining power the most efficient way for a trustworthy and ethically constrained person to improve society? Keep in mind that if you answer that question "yes", you need to believe that attempting to gain power and use it ethically and responsibly is more effective at helping people than trying to earn a bunch of money and throwing it at GiveWell's top charities[1], after adjusting for chance of success, which is a pretty high bar to clear.
Re: Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse
#210We don’t have a trust problem. We have a lack of trustworthy people in positions of power problem. I see how one can be easily confused. But we (the People) don’t trust politicians or business leaders because they have show repeatedly they’re not worthy of trust.
If there are so many of you then you should start your own platform. There is no reason facebook/twitter/etc have to host your point of view. There is absolutely zero stopping people from doing this. There are conservative oriented web hosting services, put your stuff there and let the money and followers roll in. If your point of view is popular you will draw people in like flies to honey