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Why don't we use the math we learn in school?

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Re: Why don't we use the math we learn in school?

#101

Post by t8y »

This stuff reminds me of New Math[0], I like this video on it[1].

People have a bizarre relationship with math. Somehow it's a huge problem if people don't memorise a lookup table of multiplication of unsigned integers from 1-12, Times tables are not even math! It seems like it's mostly just social and any real math has to be taught later in life. Even teaching real basic math like set theory was rejected by the masses because they didn't know it.

I wonder what society would be like is New Math continued. If everyone could do it then the average person would be far better at some (IMO the most important) aspects of programming than most programmers today. Would GDP be 2x, 10x, 100x higher? Imagine if a random hairdresser or landscaper had a perfect understanding on how computers work, it'd be crazy.

[0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Math

[1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvEcFJANVQo

Re: Why don't we use the math we learn in school?

#102

Post by [deleted] »

globular-toast wrote: post #30
jcun4128 wrote: post #5

Heh I used cross product first time in like 9 years for a little robot project.

Yeah. One underappreciated thing about education is exposure. It's not that I've been walking around every day for the past decade being capable of matrix multiplication. But having been exposed to it once, it's amazing how quickly the knowledge comes back when you need it. I did advent of code over Christmas and when the 3D transformations came up I thought about it for a bit, then remembered... something about matr…

[deleted]

Re: Why don't we use the math we learn in school?

#103

Post by [deleted] »

leetcrew wrote: post #73
alexashka wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Math is incredibly useful For what? It isn't useful for teenagers who are trying to get laid and be cool, at all . It also isn't useful for what 99% of humans end up doing, unless by math you mean basic arithmetic, enough to add and subtract on your 'smart' phone. Math isn't useful. People who are amazing at math and are interested in it - they can be useful, but mostly not. What they don't teach in school is how t…

highschool and to an extent middleschool math do spend a lot of time on stuff that doesn't matter to the average person. but it covers some things that matter a lot. what will the sales tax be on this item at the store? can I afford the items in my grocery cart? if I buy a TV on my credit card and pay it off in three months, how much extra am I paying? if I keep doing what I'm doing, when will I be able to retire?

[deleted]

Re: Why don't we use the math we learn in school?

#104

Post by jrumbut »

_y5hn wrote: post #69
rland wrote: post #8

Math is incredibly useful; probably everyone here knows that. But it's actually fine that most people don't use it. What we really need is for every student to realize why math is useful -- so that if they want to, they can go learn it so that they can make some kind of technological contribution to the world. The fact is, you need to be good at math to make some new fundamental breakthroughs in technology. Those bre…

"Why" won't meet the KPIs and metrics though.

What I find interesting is that so many schools don't meet the KPIs and metrics anyway despite stripping away most of the educational experience that isn't test prep.

If that was yielding great test scores it would be one thing, but even that isn't happening in many states (or any state that I've looked at but I only pay attention to a few).

Re: Why don't we use the math we learn in school?

#105

Post by Shared404 »

netizen-936824 wrote: post #20
Shared404 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's drivel, no better than "find the perimeter given a=5, b=6." Not only no better, but actually worse - if you add a word problem around the problem that doesn't fundamentally add anything or make the problem easier to understand [0] all you've added is another layer of text to parse through. [0] Sometimes it can be helpful. Adding a relevant layer of physicality to help reason about the problem can be nice, espe…

Adding the extra physical descriptions to calculus actually helped me better understand what the equations meant and represented. Definitely beneficial in some scenarios to some people

Same here - that experience is why I aded that exception.

Until Calculus/Physics though, I don't think there's much added benefit - except maybe an occasional "here's how algebra helps while grocery shopping".

Re: Why don't we use the math we learn in school?

#106

Post by m4thisfunaway »

rland wrote: post #8

Math is incredibly useful; probably everyone here knows that. But it's actually fine that most people don't use it. What we really need is for every student to realize why math is useful -- so that if they want to, they can go learn it so that they can make some kind of technological contribution to the world. The fact is, you need to be good at math to make some new fundamental breakthroughs in technology. Those bre…

The classic "Lockhart's Lament" paper makes a similar point, that math education would benefit from a major shift in pedagogy (PDF):

https://www.maa.org/sites/default/files/pdf/devlin/Lockharts...

Re: Why don't we use the math we learn in school?

#107

Post by netizen-936824 »

Shared404 wrote: post #105
netizen-936824 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adding the extra physical descriptions to calculus actually helped me better understand what the equations meant and represented. Definitely beneficial in some scenarios to some people

Same here - that experience is why I aded that exception. Until Calculus/Physics though, I don't think there's much added benefit - except maybe an occasional "here's how algebra helps while grocery shopping".

One other thing I find super helpful is understanding exponential growth and decay. That gets used in quite a few places besides just the sciences

Re: Why don't we use the math we learn in school?

#108

Post by alexashka »

waynesonfire wrote: post #100
alexashka wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Math is incredibly useful For what? It isn't useful for teenagers who are trying to get laid and be cool, at all . It also isn't useful for what 99% of humans end up doing, unless by math you mean basic arithmetic, enough to add and subtract on your 'smart' phone. Math isn't useful. People who are amazing at math and are interested in it - they can be useful, but mostly not. What they don't teach in school is how t…

You're an idiot. Math is everywhere. You can be ignorant of it, it won't kill you. But you're going to have a hard time in just about every endeavour I can think of.

Yup, humans have been struggling for millions of years. Then math finally came to the rescue.

Re: Why don't we use the math we learn in school?

#109

Post by waynesonfire »

alexashka wrote: post #108
waynesonfire wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're an idiot. Math is everywhere. You can be ignorant of it, it won't kill you. But you're going to have a hard time in just about every endeavour I can think of.

Yup, humans have been struggling for millions of years. Then math finally came to the rescue.

That's exactly right.

"It is a great profession. There is the satisfaction of watching a figment of the imagination emerge through the aid of science to a plan on paper. Then it moves to realization in stone or metal or energy. Then it brings jobs and homes to men. Then it elevates the standards of living and adds to the comforts of life. That is the engineer's high privilege." - Herbert Hoover

Re: Why don't we use the math we learn in school?

#110

Post by graycat »

mlyle wrote: post #29
graycat wrote: post #15

Uh, there is a carpenter with a Web site that uses the "3, 4, 5 rule", of course, the Pythagorean theorem. The first order ordinary differential equation initial value problem d/dt y(t) = k y(t) ( b - y(t) ) can be use to model viral growth . Once it kept two crucial FedEx BoD members from walking out and saved the company. Similarly for the law of cosines for spherical triangles for finding great circle distances. L…

> Uh, there is a carpenter with a Web site that uses the "3, 4, 5 rule", of course, the Pythagorean theorem. Knowing a triplet ain't employing Pythagorean theorem. > [lots of following examples that are moderately deep applied math used in lots of skilled professions] Most people don't do this kind of work or analysis.

> Knowing a triplet ain't employing Pythagorean theorem.

3^2 + 4^2 = 5^2 = 25 guarantees that the angle between the side length 3 and the side of length 4 is a right angle which is what the carpenter very much wanted to know. E.g., the sides might be 30 feet, 40 feet and 50 feet, e.g., for the foundation of a house, and presto, bingo the carpenter knows that the 30 foot side and the 40 foot side form a right angle, are square, which can be very important to a carpenter and not so easy to know otherwise.

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