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Ask HN: Why do companies issue crappy machines to developers?

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Re: Ask HN: Why do companies issue crappy machines to developers?

#41

Post by oceanghost »

jiggawatts wrote: post #10
crate_barre wrote: post #2

Money is just a complicated thing for people. I’ve had very close friends, good people, that had certain habits ingrained in them. Cheapness is a mental disorder, like addiction, or other compulsions. It’s solvable, but boy is it something to marvel at when you see it first hand. It’s like walking into a hoarder’s closet for the first time in your life.

I had to explain to both friends and romantic partners that it’s absolutely insane to penny-pinch on certain things. Pepper, for example. I always buy a good pepper grinder with the best quality whole peppercorns in it. The difference it makes to a dish is just incredible. This costs something like 3 cents per meal instead of 1 cent.

I have had the exact same argument with several partners-- but absurd.

One insisted I was "wasting money" by buying name brand French's mustard. At the time, the gallon jug of it was $3.29 and lasted years-- and I made low 6 figures.

Another g/f insisted I was wasting money buying bags of ice at the store (we didn't have a water hookup for our fridge). She spent $30 on ice trays, and then there was never any ice because it had become this manual process that needed to be managed several times a day. I went back to buying ice...

--

So tell me about these peppercorns?

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies issue crappy machines to developers?

#43

Post by jiggawatts »

__d wrote: post #34
BitwiseFool wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's how I like to put it: "No one faults a mechanic for buying high-end tools and top of the line equipment. I program for a living, how is buying an expensive computer any different"?

Oh, but they do! The cost of cheap tools can be a fraction of a well-made tool. On paper (ie. the only way in which a manager can compare them) they have identical functionality. So why spend 100x more? Even if you then have to replace them more often, it's not likely that they need to be replaced 100x more often. And even if they do, that's not in this year's budget, so you can deal with that problem later, while sa…

I like the strategy Adam Savage follows: Buy the cheap tool! If it breaks, throw it away and buy the expensive one instead.

This is a self-optimising strategy where he has cheap tools where it doesn't matter, and expensive tools where it does.

While this kind of approach can work very well, it doesn't translate well to the world of "corporate drone doing software development on company equipment" because:

1. Development don't have a nice clear "break" signal, they just introduce friction. Lots of small frictions, each maybe just a fraction of a second, too difficult to measure.

2. The entire problem is that unlike Adam working in his own shop, in charge of his own tools, most corporate developers get very little choice in their tools.

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies issue crappy machines to developers?

#44

Post by majewsky »

tyingq wrote: post #13

>a Core i5 laptop with 16GB of ram running at 1.6GHz Not arguing that's enough, but it is probably better than the average customer laptop. So if you do get a much higher-end machine, it's worth making sure the app runs okay on something less capable than that.

Exactly this. I wish more developers were being made mindful of the humongous amount of resources they're wasting.

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies issue crappy machines to developers?

#45

Post by Krisjohn »

bb88 wrote: post #24

Because laptops are a standard hammer for most organizations. Optimizing everyone into a standard laptop configuration saves money and time for the entire company. They don't need Xeon's to run excel. The CFO/CTO is looking at the macro picture. You are a subset of that organization. If your engineering director wants more powerful laptops, it should be up to him or her to work through the CFO/CTO to do it. Also some…

That would be a valid answer if all of senior management didn't regularly ask for, and receive, non-standard computers (usually lighter or more powerful laptops, sometimes just more expensive ones for no good reason).

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies issue crappy machines to developers?

#46

Post by Krisjohn »

cupcakesupreme wrote: post #37
nicoburns wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't you normally supply your own equipment for a contract?

The manager was a creepy ass creeper who wanted your machine tied to his machine so he could observe you whenever he felt like it. Yes, one of those.

That doesn't sound like it would have slowed down the craptiplex even more at all.

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies issue crappy machines to developers?

#47

Post by yks »

PaulHoule wrote: post #9

I think many managers really don't understand the impact that computer performance has on developers. For instance, some developers have a 40 minute build process. You'd imagine that if you spent a week making that 40 minute build process a 10 minute build process you could get that time back in a few weeks. The first response you might get if you bring the issue up is that we only work on tickets that have a direct…

In real world it's usually hard to precisely quantify this improvement ahead of time and so managers might over weigh the probability that your efforts fail to materialize the win. In the end you need a manager that is comfortable enough with risks, has the same expectation of success as you, and trusts you personally. So as usual, you need a good manager.

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies issue crappy machines to developers?

#48

Post by dave333 »

Developers can adjust their work style to accommodate a slow build process to some extent just by batching multiple changes into each build. I'm retired now but I never found a better way to work than keeping a notebook full of one-line problem statements created as bugs were found. Typically I would fix several of these then compile and test. That said my last employer a large networking company had power laptops standard for devs and normal laptops for everyone else.

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies issue crappy machines to developers?

#49

Post by toast0 »

tyingq wrote: post #13

>a Core i5 laptop with 16GB of ram running at 1.6GHz Not arguing that's enough, but it is probably better than the average customer laptop. So if you do get a much higher-end machine, it's worth making sure the app runs okay on something less capable than that.

I was going to write something similar. Actually, I don't care what hardware developers use to develop on, but what they use to experience the product should be at most median of user hardware, and probably lower spec than that (except if they're working on bugs or features for high end devices or specific devices). A low spec laptop (which something with 16GB isn't) and a nice remote build server is a good combination.

When you give developers wonderful devices, it takes a lot of mindfulness to consider the performance on lower class hardware. When you have to make do with $100 laptops or phones, you're more likely to make things work for the low end users.

Re: Ask HN: Why do companies issue crappy machines to developers?

#50

Post by paulryanrogers »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #29

Well, in my case, I have been using laptops for development for at least ten years. I can easily afford a real powerhouse desktop, but I have deliberately chosen laptops. Most of the time, I don't need a huge amount of power. I'm not rebuilding the Linux core, every time I compile; usually an app. For my server work, all I really need, is an FTP connection, a browser, and a text editor. The reason that I prefer lapto…

> I'm running on an LG Ultrawide (49-inch, 5120 X 1440) monitor

That sir is a super ultra-wide. I salute you!

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