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Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

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Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#101

Post by pbourke »

SSilver2k2 wrote: post #63
dijonman2 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False. Individual liberty must be protected. Denying food shopping is a special kind of cruel and unusual punishment. It’s a personal choice, full stop.

Yes, such a cruel and unusual punishment to have your groceries delivered directly to your door.

Not everyone is able to do that, for a number of reasons:

- not capable of using a mobile app or website for ordering

- low language proficiency

- not able to be at home to accept delivery during the day

- don’t have a means of payment compatible with online ordering

- live paycheck to paycheck and depend on going to the store “on demand” to make essential purchases (such as on payday). Often after normal delivery hours.

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#102

Post by daenz »

EForEndeavour wrote: post #93
daenz wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seat belts and helmets do not require chemicals to be injected into your bloodstream in order to freely associate with other humans. These measures change free association by making it illegal to exist naturally around others. There is a huge difference.

Yeah, but cars don't hitch rides in your lungs and jump into nearby people's mouths, occasionally injuring them.

Based on that reasoning we should ban free association because people randomly assault others occasionally too.

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#103

Post by bryanlarsen »

tims33 wrote: post #12

Creating a competitive advantage for non-big box stores? This is an incredibly odd policy.

A major criticism of the first wave of lockdowns was how it advantaged the big box stores. Walmart, because it sold groceries, was allowed to stay open, while smaller Walmart competitors were restricted to curbside shopping. I suspect this policy is largely a response to that criticism.

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#104

Post by sekh60 »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #98
colpabar wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What bugs me about the "we can't overwhelm the health care system" argument is that when/if this is all over, NOTHING will be done to improve the health care system to help prevent that from happening in the future. We'll all just continue to be told to be mad at each other, and no one in charge will be held accountable.

AFAICT, Quebec was probably the only province to do the most effective thing to improve the health care system: increasing the wages of nurses. Only half-heartedly because it was a bonus not a raise, but it's a lot better than Ontario which is effectively reducing the wages of their nurses after inflation by legislatively capping raises to 1%. Here's hoping it's a major election issue in Ontario this summer.

I hope it is, but sadly people have short memories. I worry Ford will announce an end to all restrictions come election time so people focus on that instead of all the cuts.

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#105

Post by VancouverMan »

rastignack wrote: post #56
WaylonKenning wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who lived in Canada, lives next to Australia, and lives in New Zealand, I wouldn't suggest any of these places are 'devolving into police states'. Having people do stuff to protect the safety of themselves and others is part of the social contract of these countries. We wear seatbelts. We wear helmets on Motorbikes. All things that restrict our freedom to damage ourselves. Because who incurs the cost of wh…

> Having people do stuff to protect the safety of themselves and others is part of the social contract of these countries. Are smokers and alcohol consumers also targeted by these social credit type measures in those states ?

No post body was provided.

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#106

Post by orang2tang »

tux1968 wrote: post #60
whatshisface wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At some point the other 90% of taxpayers shouldn't subsidized the stupid decisions of the remaining 10%. The idea that vaccinated people are an island unconcerned with the fate of the un-vaccinated or the spread of the disease breaks down in two places: 1. You can still die from it if you have the shot, you're just substantially less likely to. 2. Eventually, unless they're stopped, random mutations will create a v…

There are literally billions of unvaccinated people on the planet still, and there are unvaccinated wildlife hosts for Covid as well. It was naive to think that anything but this scenario would emerge.

Yet we have many people who want to attempt to vaccinate the entire world 4-5 times over in order to defeat a common cold. Crazy times.

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#107

Post by hughrr »

makomk wrote: post #81
hughrr wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From UK. Can confirm. If you can’t serve as a exemplar, serve as an example. Well that’s how it feels living here anyway.

The news coverage here seems to treat anything the government does as the wrong thing just because they've done it though. For example, healthcare workers in England will be required to be vaccinated soon unless the government changes its mind, and the whole media has been on a push against it, including the BBC making their top headline on the news front page an article about how terrible it was and uncritically reg…

The new agencies are selling attention and contrarianism is the cheapest form of attention.

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#108

Post by subsubzero »

belval wrote: post #77
0x_rs wrote: post #59

This is a state fighting its own citizens for a political act of ignorance. 90% of eligible individuals have received at least one dose in Quebec.[0] What's the point of additional marginalization of a very stubborn group of people? It's playing with fire and with no responsibilities, as I severely doubt anyone will be convinced to get vaccinated because they can't go to Walmart after one year of restrictions, but it…

Not sure if you're from Quebec so this wouldn't be news to you, but our healthcare is BAD. Like comically bad. Nurses are routinely forced to do doubles because they don't have enough staff, hell we don't even have enough beds either! Because of COVID a lot of non-critical but still pretty important procedures were cancelled for lack of workers. So in that context the government is legitimately scared of it all crash…

That sounds like a problem with health infrastructure. So because leaders did not put in the needed health infrastructure to serve the population, basic rights(buying food) are violated for some.

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#109

Post by makomk »

rastignack wrote: post #46
kiba wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obesity is a multifactorial societal problem with possible environmental and chemical factors, while covid can be vaccinated against with a simple jab.

Just to be more precise, unvaccinated people represent 26% of new hospitalizations in quebec, and 40% in ICU according to the official dashboard [1]. The efficiency against omicron is very limited, thus the huge deprivations we see here are politically motivated. I feel like I’m living a scary dystopia. 1 - https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJt95WHXMAEHzyp?format=jpg&name=...

The current vaccinations are actually reasonably good at preventing Omicron hospitalizations, enough so to be worthwhile on an individual level anyway. The problem is that they're not 100% effective and if Quebec is anything like the UK, almost all the people who're actually at risk of being hospitalized are already vaccinated - there just aren't enough left that vaccinating the remainder will do much about hospitals being overwhelmed. From a social standpoint they aren't a problem. The only purpose of measures like these seems to be giving the voting public an enemy to blame when the hospital system is overwhelmed anyway, and making sure that enemy isn't the politicians who decided how the hospitals were funeded and run.

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#110

Post by bryanlarsen »

rastignack wrote: post #46
kiba wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obesity is a multifactorial societal problem with possible environmental and chemical factors, while covid can be vaccinated against with a simple jab.

Just to be more precise, unvaccinated people represent 26% of new hospitalizations in quebec, and 40% in ICU according to the official dashboard [1]. The efficiency against omicron is very limited, thus the huge deprivations we see here are politically motivated. I feel like I’m living a scary dystopia. 1 - https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJt95WHXMAEHzyp?format=jpg&name=...

The vaccination rate of the vulnerable population is significantly higher than the vaccination rate in the general population. Your data helps prove that vaccines are quite effective.
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