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Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

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Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#51

Post by tims33 »

mabub24 wrote: post #39
tims33 wrote: post #12

Creating a competitive advantage for non-big box stores? This is an incredibly odd policy.

Most of the provinces have been engaged in pandemic response theater. The core issue is hospital capacity, and the provinces across the board have failed to improve or address the issues in their healthcare systems. Quebec has adopted a particularly theatrical set of of responses (curfews, this latest insistence on vaccine "passports" for stores), but I don't think anyone really expects these to be anything more than…

I agree. Hospital capacity is critical. One of the biggest mistakes of the pandemic is leaders not being clear on exactly what problem they're trying to solve and laying out how a manageable list of mitigations address the specific problems.

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#52

Post by TwoNineA »

disambiguation wrote: post #42

https://www.quebec.ca/en/health/health-issues/a-z/2019-coron... The most recent data on the evolution of COVID-19, in the last 24 hours, in Québec show: 4,150 new cases, bringing the total number of people infected to 845,564*; 73 new deaths, for a total of 13,009 deaths; 3,270 hospitalizations, for a decrease of 8 compared to the previous day; 297 new entries, 305 new discharges; 252 people in intensive care, for a…

PCR tests are only done on essential workers so the real case number is WAY higher.

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#53

Post by Flankk »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #5
superkuh wrote: post #2

The public policy responses to this pandemic would make a whole lot more sense if intramuscular (humoral) vaccination actually prevented (or even significantly mitigated) the spread of sars-cov-2. Unfortunately humoral vaccination only starts the B cell to plasma cells training and generation of igG antibodies in the body serum to protect internal organs. Other immune compartments like the upper respiratory mucosa ar…

The Quebec government's major concern is protecting their health care system. The Canadian health care system was quite stretched pre-pandemic, and it wouldn't take much to break it. The goal at this point is less about preventing the spread than it is about increasing the vaccination rate to keep people out of hospitals.

Why are hospitals stretched thin? Nurses have quit, have been fired due to mandates, and have been prevented from returning to work due to infection. You need a passport to eat in a restaurant here. There are 30,000 pissed off truckers headed to Ottawa right now. They lost their jobs due to mandates. Your argument is that these things are smart decisions?

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#54

Post by dijonman2 »

SSilver2k2 wrote: post #19
Mikeb85 wrote: post #4

The UK, Denmark and others moving to get rid of ALL restrictions. Meanwhile Canada, Australia and others devolving into police states... Edit - forgot some other countries. Netherlands, Ireland also ditching restrictions...

Not a police state to put in more restrictions after the bare minimum hasn't worked or been followed.

False. Individual liberty must be protected. Denying food shopping is a special kind of cruel and unusual punishment. It’s a personal choice, full stop.

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#55

Post by daenz »

WaylonKenning wrote: post #26
Mikeb85 wrote: post #4

The UK, Denmark and others moving to get rid of ALL restrictions. Meanwhile Canada, Australia and others devolving into police states... Edit - forgot some other countries. Netherlands, Ireland also ditching restrictions...

As someone who lived in Canada, lives next to Australia, and lives in New Zealand, I wouldn't suggest any of these places are 'devolving into police states'. Having people do stuff to protect the safety of themselves and others is part of the social contract of these countries. We wear seatbelts. We wear helmets on Motorbikes. All things that restrict our freedom to damage ourselves. Because who incurs the cost of wh…

Seat belts and helmets do not require chemicals to be injected into your bloodstream in order to freely associate with other humans. These measures change free association by making it illegal to exist naturally around others. There is a huge difference.

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#56

Post by rastignack »

WaylonKenning wrote: post #26
Mikeb85 wrote: post #4

The UK, Denmark and others moving to get rid of ALL restrictions. Meanwhile Canada, Australia and others devolving into police states... Edit - forgot some other countries. Netherlands, Ireland also ditching restrictions...

As someone who lived in Canada, lives next to Australia, and lives in New Zealand, I wouldn't suggest any of these places are 'devolving into police states'. Having people do stuff to protect the safety of themselves and others is part of the social contract of these countries. We wear seatbelts. We wear helmets on Motorbikes. All things that restrict our freedom to damage ourselves. Because who incurs the cost of wh…

> Having people do stuff to protect the safety of themselves and others is part of the social contract of these countries.

Are smokers and alcohol consumers also targeted by these social credit type measures in those states ?

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#57

Post by myko »

34679 wrote: post #50
space_fountain wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Covid vaccines did do a decent job at preventing spread in the original variants, and actually even now (unless I'm mistaken, it's hard to entirely keep up) the vaccines still cut the probability of you being infected at any point in time

This is false. I challenge anyone to find any statement, from any of the mRNA vaccine manufacturers, from any point in time, that claims the vaccines reduce transmission even a tiny bit.

https://twitter.com/JohnsHopkinsSPH/status/14816875061481185...

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/vaccinated-people-can...

It is well known that vaccination helps to reduce spread. It isn't perfect, but it is better than being unvaccinated.

The data is clear but you can also reason about this and feel like it is intuitively true - those that are vaccinated face better outcomes and are sick for shorter periods of time, the shorter period of time they are infected leads to them being unable to infect others for as long. It's pretty simple, really.

edit: multiple studies by scientists in different countries is more reliable than marketing text from any specific manufacturer. The data is available, just read the studies mentioned in the article I linked, or research on your own.

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#58

Post by jaywalk »

myko wrote: post #45
jaywalk wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes it unquestionable? There's no data or science to back this up, it's the definition of questionable.

There is a lot of data showing unvaccinated are at higher risk of severe illness and spread disease more than vaccinated folks. You are wrong. https://www.healthline.com/health-news/vaccinated-people-can... https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/2021112... The data is clear. They're not banned from buying groceries, they're banned from entering the stores - which unquestionably would lead to them spread…

I'm talking about banning unvaccinated people from buying groceries, specifically. Which is what this is about.

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#59

Post by 0x_rs »

This is a state fighting its own citizens for a political act of ignorance. 90% of eligible individuals have received at least one dose in Quebec.[0] What's the point of additional marginalization of a very stubborn group of people? It's playing with fire and with no responsibilities, as I severely doubt anyone will be convinced to get vaccinated because they can't go to Walmart after one year of restrictions, but it will certainly make them madder.

[0]. https://covid19tracker.ca/provincevac.html?p=QC

Re: Quebec bans unvaccinated from buying groceries at Walmart, Costco

#60

Post by tux1968 »

whatshisface wrote: post #10
VHRanger wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quebec has a heavily socialized medical system. 10% of the population is unvaccinated, but make up >50% of COVID beds in hopitals, a significant fraction of the *entire medical system*. At some point the other 90% of taxpayers shouldn't subsidized the stupid decisions of the remaining 10%. I'm not saying banning grocery store access is necessarily it, but something needs to be done

> At some point the other 90% of taxpayers shouldn't subsidized the stupid decisions of the remaining 10%. The idea that vaccinated people are an island unconcerned with the fate of the un-vaccinated or the spread of the disease breaks down in two places: 1. You can still die from it if you have the shot, you're just substantially less likely to. 2. Eventually, unless they're stopped, random mutations will create a v…

There are literally billions of unvaccinated people on the planet still, and there are unvaccinated wildlife hosts for Covid as well. It was naive to think that anything but this scenario would emerge.
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