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Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

irishtimes.com

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Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#481

Post by radu_floricica »

hamilyon2 wrote: post #427
radu_floricica wrote: post #254

I've said this before here and got downvoted for it, but bioethicists as a profession are responsible for more death than pretty much anything else I can quickly think of. People are dying from heart disease all the time, very often in predictable conditions. Literally millions every year. Statistically this means we should hear about such failed procedures many many more times than we do now - there is literally no…

I respectfully disagree. It is patient's right to refuse any medical procedure. A mere suspicion, impression that doctors are not treating life and health of this particular patient with all sainctity will do a lot more harm than good. I mean, life is precious, doctors should know this best and act like it is. Recklessness even in words will do a lot of harm. A lot of credit will be lost if standards slip even a litt…

This is risking another rant, but I'll hold. Keeping things short - authorities lied their asses off for the whole pandemic, and this is what (legitimately) destroyed trust. People are a lot less stupid than usually given credit for - sure, they can't always do the research themselves, but they do know to look around and orient them in complex situations. And it got pretty obvious pretty soon that the official message was not about the truth, but about getting the "correct" response. Which turned out to be a lot less precise and correct in practice. So yeah, now you get people mistrusting vaccines because you can't get them to trust anything.

The longer response would be that public institutions should be forbidden to use Simulacra Levels over 1 (https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/qDmnyEMtJkE9Wrpau/simulacra-...)

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#482

Post by Loeffelmaenn »

omgitsabird wrote: post #444
Loeffelmaenn wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's more that justice means something different to different people. I think that vengeance can be justice.

Why do you think that? Lets say a man goes to prison for 25 years for murder, and upon release the victim's husband kills him. The victim's husband gets revenge, but is it just? Justice shouldn't be subjective, imo.

I of course think that example is not just. However I think there a certain crimes like mass murder are beyond being forgivable. It's where I think the only just thing is vengance.

Also justice can't be objective. Put n people in a room and ask them what is just and you'll get n different answers.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#483

Post by Chris2048 »

femiagbabiaka wrote: post #173
MisterMower wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The guy should have got the death penalty for attempted and arguably successful murder (the victim later died of a stroke directly attributable to the wounds he received from the stabbing). 10 years for stabbing a guy multiple times to the point of putting him in a wheel chair is a slap on the wrist. Funny how a lot of problems work themselves out when swift justice is delivered. This whole thread doesn’t exist in th…

In the article I see a few pictures of the guy with his large, seemingly happy family. Getting rid of the opportunity for that to happen would be like creating another tragedy from the ashes of the first. I don’t know where you’re from, but in America a lot of folks share your view. But our use of the death penalty hasn’t eradicated crime. So then one has to wonder if the possible benefits are worth the price.

> with his large, seemingly happy family

If we take that into account, then do loners without friends/children/family not deserve the same consideration?

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#484

Post by Chris2048 »

yboris wrote: post #105
emptyparadise wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>“The key principle in medicine is to treat anyone who is sick, regardless of who they are,” said Arthur Caplan, a bioethics professor at New York University. “We are not in the business of sorting sinners from saints. Crime is a legal matter.” This is so simple and newspapers trying to make it into a matter for debate is actually compromising that.

Side-comment that doesn't apply in this case, but worth mentioning: "regardless of who they are" seems like a shitty blanket principle to have. For example, hospitals are overstuffed with COVID patients means regular patients die as a result. In many cases, "The overwhelming majority of the patients had COVID-19, and 98% of those needing acute critical care were unvaccinated." This means people who choose to not take…

> hospitals are overstuffed with COVID patients means regular patients die as a result

as a result of what? Failure to isolate COVID patients?

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#485

Post by [deleted] »

Loeffelmaenn wrote: post #482
omgitsabird wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think that? Lets say a man goes to prison for 25 years for murder, and upon release the victim's husband kills him. The victim's husband gets revenge, but is it just? Justice shouldn't be subjective, imo.

I of course think that example is not just. However I think there a certain crimes like mass murder are beyond being forgivable. It's where I think the only just thing is vengance. Also justice can't be objective. Put n people in a room and ask them what is just and you'll get n different answers.

[deleted]

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#486

Post by femiagbabiaka »

Chris2048 wrote: post #483
femiagbabiaka wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the article I see a few pictures of the guy with his large, seemingly happy family. Getting rid of the opportunity for that to happen would be like creating another tragedy from the ashes of the first. I don’t know where you’re from, but in America a lot of folks share your view. But our use of the death penalty hasn’t eradicated crime. So then one has to wonder if the possible benefits are worth the price.

> with his large, seemingly happy family If we take that into account, then do loners without friends/children/family not deserve the same consideration?

They definitely do in my view. But if you were facing the death penalty as a part of a jury trial they might feel differently, character witness statements matter to some degree.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#487

Post by 2Gkashmiri »

bigyellow wrote: post #462
2Gkashmiri wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excuse my"rough language" but I find PETA people stupid, aburd and straight up dangerous. Those bastards want to leave a human being to die because they care about an animal. Fuck you. Look. I am a Muslim. That means, by religious scriptures, we are programmed to avoid pork. why? Simply because "god told us to avoid pork". No other thing. Abstain from eating pork and people follow that. Now, when it comes to saving a…

Wow, this is one triggered ego! "I'm more important than animals because I said so!!!". Hilarious watching you throw this little tantrum.

yeah.. pretty much. i did not say "I'm more important than animals because I said so!!!". i said "humanity is more important than animals". there is a difference. if you can't see that then the joke is on you

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#488

Post by omgitsabird »

Loeffelmaenn wrote: post #482
omgitsabird wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think that? Lets say a man goes to prison for 25 years for murder, and upon release the victim's husband kills him. The victim's husband gets revenge, but is it just? Justice shouldn't be subjective, imo.

I of course think that example is not just. However I think there a certain crimes like mass murder are beyond being forgivable. It's where I think the only just thing is vengance. Also justice can't be objective. Put n people in a room and ask them what is just and you'll get n different answers.

Justice, by definition, necessitates objectivity.

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/justice/

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#489

Post by threshold »

wonderwonder wrote: post #466
threshold wrote: post #305

Is this compassionate use or experimentation on a dying patient for the future benefit of the rest of us? I’m fine with the latter, if consensual. But only if we call it what it is.

If the patient gets to hug his kids a year from now, he would probably consider it compassionate use.

He won’t. Although I’d love to be proven wrong. Similar experiments lasted weeks

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#490

Post by sgjohnson »

Loeffelmaenn wrote: post #482
omgitsabird wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think that? Lets say a man goes to prison for 25 years for murder, and upon release the victim's husband kills him. The victim's husband gets revenge, but is it just? Justice shouldn't be subjective, imo.

I of course think that example is not just. However I think there a certain crimes like mass murder are beyond being forgivable. It's where I think the only just thing is vengance. Also justice can't be objective. Put n people in a room and ask them what is just and you'll get n different answers.

There’s actually no suitable punishment for mass murderers/war criminals/terrorists at all. There’s no righting the wrongs they have caused. There’s no rehabilitation. There’s no real punishment.

When push comes to shove, how many of them even expect to get out alive? Is death penalty really just in such a situation?

The US just puts them in ADX Florence where they are tortured mentally (complete isolation, no end in sight, basically no human interaction at all). Which is probably what they deserve, but it’s still torture.

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