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The history of the end of poverty has just begun

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Re: The history of the end of poverty has just begun

#391

Post by CryptoPunk »

nobodyandproud wrote: post #389
CryptoPunk wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Discouraging investment in housing will have exactly the opposite effect that you intend.

Would you mind explaining? Upfront investment by building-out to provide supply is the policy that we need. Yet current policies favor rent-seeking and parking-funds in desirable areas, leading to properties that owned but actually vacant (e.g., most of London or Vancouver Island).

A larger secondary market leads to more capital being available in the primary market that directly funds new construction that adds housing stock and renovation that prevents its depreciation.

>>but actually vacant (e.g., most of London or Vancouver Island).

Most of London and Vancouver Island are not vacant.

Re: The history of the end of poverty has just begun

#392

Post by nickpp »

glogla wrote: post #366
nickpp wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I could imagine lot of people who would think they are better off there than in the US. I love Bulgaria (beautiful country, great people) but it's just your imagination: there are still more Bulgarians emigrating to the USA than Americans to Bulgaria. Lots more. Like almost one-way street, really. Poor minority Walmart employees having no idea how good they would have it in Bulgaria instead...

At the same time, I assume Americans would love to have 20 days of PTO, and not be afraid they end up in debt over disease or die because they can't afford insulin.

Maybe they would - but not enough to give up all other US' advantages and emigrate to Bulgaria.

Re: The history of the end of poverty has just begun

#393

Post by nobodyandproud »

CryptoPunk wrote: post #391
nobodyandproud wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you mind explaining? Upfront investment by building-out to provide supply is the policy that we need. Yet current policies favor rent-seeking and parking-funds in desirable areas, leading to properties that owned but actually vacant (e.g., most of London or Vancouver Island).

A larger secondary market leads to more capital being available in the primary market that directly funds new construction that adds housing stock and renovation that prevents its depreciation. >>but actually vacant (e.g., most of London or Vancouver Island). Most of London and Vancouver Island are not vacant.

> A larger secondary market leads to more capital being available in the primary market that directly funds new construction that adds housing stock and renovation that prevents its depreciation.

I don’t buy this. The speculators who make-up the secondary market are not the ones who make money by tearing down and building new properties.

There’s no value added to these speculators and is akin to domain squatting.

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/empty-homes-vancouver-report

Vacancy is a problem in most areas of Vancouver.

London also had similar issues.

Re: The history of the end of poverty has just begun

#394

Post by goodpoint »

nickpp wrote: post #341
glogla wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bulgaria has free healthcare and university education. People in Bulgaria are also very unlikely to be killed by police or die in a mass shooting. Bulgaria also has less people incarcerated per capita than the US. Bulgarian workers get mandatory 20 day of PTO a year. I could imagine lot of people who would think they are better off there than in the US. E: There's of course a lot of things that aren't great about Bul…

> I could imagine lot of people who would think they are better off there than in the US. I love Bulgaria (beautiful country, great people) but it's just your imagination: there are still more Bulgarians emigrating to the USA than Americans to Bulgaria. Lots more. Like almost one-way street, really. Poor minority Walmart employees having no idea how good they would have it in Bulgaria instead...

> Like almost one-way street

Sure, but that proves nothing.

Re: The history of the end of poverty has just begun

#395

Post by bryanlarsen »

dragonwriter wrote: post #382
bryanlarsen wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A significant portion of our economy is post-scarcity. Software, movies, tv, books, video games are all non-scarce goods forced to fit into a scarce framework through IP law. They are distributed horribly inefficiently as a result. The replicator would transform most physical goods into IP so perhaps a better economy would be structured around efficient and equitable IP creation and distribution, with the few remaini…

> A significant portion of our economy is post-scarcity. No, it's not. The economy is the system of distribution of scarce resources. Anything that is actually post-scarcity isn't part of it. > Software, movies, tv, books, video games are all non-scarce goods forced to fit into a scarce framework through IP law. No, they aren't. They are goods based around something with a high initial fixed cost and a low marginal c…

By your definition "post-scarcity economy" is an oxymoron, and this whole discussion is moot and pointless.

If intellectual goods aren't post-scarcity in the 21st century, then nothing in the 24th century is either.

Re: The history of the end of poverty has just begun

#396

Post by probinso »

h0l0cube wrote: post #254

Could we classify the lives in tribes and villages prior to civilisation as "poverty"? Or did "poverty" begin with civilisation?

you might enjoy reading "tribe", "braiding sweet grass", "The dawn of everything", and "The new trail of tears"

they have very helpful history in understanding how poverty is manufactured, within the context of colonial capitalism.

Re: The history of the end of poverty has just begun

#397

Post by rhcom2 »

WalterBright wrote: post #231
rhcom2 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> resulting in America's poor being the richest poor people in the world. That's a pretty big assertion without evidence especially with America's awful healthcare system and it's smaller safety net than some other countries.

For big evidence, look at the hundreds of thousands of people tramping thousands of miles just for a shot at getting into America.

That isn't evidence for what you asserted. Just evidence that for those people it might be worse somewhere else.

Re: The history of the end of poverty has just begun

#399

Post by WalterBright »

guerrilla wrote: post #171
WalterBright wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The homeless issue in the US is much more of a drug addiction and alcoholism problem than a down on one's luck problem. Something like 90% of the homeless are in that category. > Who needs plumbing when you have a servant to bring you whatever you want? I like hot showers. I bet you do, too. Besides, what do you think happens to kings when they get a toothache? No anesthetic, nothing to be done except an idiot with a…

> The homeless issue in the US is much more of a drug addiction and alcoholism problem than a down on one's luck problem. Something like 90% of the homeless are in that category. Where'd you hear that? I've been watching a lot of Soft White Underbelly, interviews with people on Skid Row, and that doesn't really seem to be the case in general although there are a few [1]. Invisible People also does interviews with hom…

> Where'd you hear that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpAi70WWBlw

"60 Minutes" did a segment on that, too, and went interviewing Seattle homeless. Everyone they interviewed turned out to be a drug addict or an alcoholic, even though they initially fooled the 60 Minutes crew.

Lots of them will say they were homeless because they lost their job, which is technically correct, but digging deeper reveals they lost their job because they were drug addicts and alcoholics.

Re: The history of the end of poverty has just begun

#400

Post by WalterBright »

chaostheory wrote: post #266
WalterBright wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The homeless issue in the US is much more of a drug addiction and alcoholism problem than a down on one's luck problem. Something like 90% of the homeless are in that category. > Who needs plumbing when you have a servant to bring you whatever you want? I like hot showers. I bet you do, too. Besides, what do you think happens to kings when they get a toothache? No anesthetic, nothing to be done except an idiot with a…

While you’re partially right that chronic homelessness is related to drug abuse, most of them are mentally ill. Unfortunately due to legal changes in the 1980’s, you can no longer help the mentally ill unless they provide consent. The end result is they stay homeless, while the other 80% of the homeless end up recovering in less than a year.

Mental illness is indeed a cause of some of the homelessness. But this isn't a poverty down-on-their-luck problem, it's a mental illness problem.
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