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Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

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Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#211

Post by tarboreus »

sofixa wrote: post #181
_fat_santa wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's aggravating is all the "feel good" policies that fly in the face of the current state of the pandemic. We have gotten to the point where numerous officials have said something along the lines of "vaccines won't protect you against getting Omicron, masks don't really do anything either". So you think. Ok, we have gotten to the point where these measures are ineffective, so lets do away with the measures. And th…

Any more details on the "masks don't work thing"? It's news to me, and i don't see how that could have changed - masks, even cloth ones, but even more so for surgical and N95 types, drastically limit how much virus you spread when you're contagious; and especially N95 also offer some protection against catching it. Especially for crowded places, masks seem like a no brainer.

Not OP. They work, but much more marginally and situationally than most people think. They're best thought of as a delaying factor in exposure, with cloth masks adding no or a few minutes and surgical masks adding somewhat more time. In many situations, this is irrelevant, because you're stuck with the group and the air for far longer than the mask differential affords. I'd say the optimal places for wearing masks are probably supermarkets, and maybe also communter transit. Can't find the damn paper now, and all information is false anyway.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#212

Post by Izkata »

sofixa wrote: post #181
_fat_santa wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's aggravating is all the "feel good" policies that fly in the face of the current state of the pandemic. We have gotten to the point where numerous officials have said something along the lines of "vaccines won't protect you against getting Omicron, masks don't really do anything either". So you think. Ok, we have gotten to the point where these measures are ineffective, so lets do away with the measures. And th…

Any more details on the "masks don't work thing"? It's news to me, and i don't see how that could have changed - masks, even cloth ones, but even more so for surgical and N95 types, drastically limit how much virus you spread when you're contagious; and especially N95 also offer some protection against catching it. Especially for crowded places, masks seem like a no brainer.

Around a month ago Rochelle Walensky, director of the CDC, said in an interview (paraphrased) "cloth masks are ineffective against the transmissibility of omicron".

(Edit: wrong person, here's video of what I'm remembering: https://mobile.twitter.com/townhallcom/status/14733056927149... ) (Anyway that was just intended as context for below, what I think may have been the starting point for a larger shift)

Thing is, the virus didn't change size, so right after this it's as if people started to realize the droplets-vs-aerosols mistake from 2020 that a minority have kept on since then, and what they've been saying for over a year is slowly becoming accepted:

Masks and social distancing were mandated under the assumption SARS-CoV-2 spread primarily through heavy droplets that would quickly fall to the ground, which were also large and heavy enough to easily be caught by masks. However, it turns out the primary spread vector is aerosol - too small for cloth masks to catch, light enough to quickly diffuse through a room, and light enough to easily slip around the sides of an unsealed mask.

A well-sealed N95 might work, but considering how bad even pro-mask people are at wearing cloth masks correctly, I don't think very many would manage to wear the N95 right.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#214

Post by josefx »

ouchjars wrote: post #133
robrorcroptrer wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could the global obesity epidemic not also be handled through mandates?

If you could avoid getting obese with two shots in the arm and wearing a piece of cloth every time you leave the house for a couple years.

No post body was provided.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#215

Post by Angostura »

Izkata wrote: post #212
sofixa wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any more details on the "masks don't work thing"? It's news to me, and i don't see how that could have changed - masks, even cloth ones, but even more so for surgical and N95 types, drastically limit how much virus you spread when you're contagious; and especially N95 also offer some protection against catching it. Especially for crowded places, masks seem like a no brainer.

Around a month ago Rochelle Walensky, director of the CDC, said in an interview (paraphrased) "cloth masks are ineffective against the transmissibility of omicron". (Edit: wrong person, here's video of what I'm remembering: https://mobile.twitter.com/townhallcom/status/14733056927149... ) (Anyway that was just intended as context for below, what I think may have been the starting point for a larger shift) Thing is, t…

> said in an interview (paraphrased) "cloth masks are ineffective against the transmissibility of omicron".

That's a reallty dangerous thing to try and paraphrase - what did they actually say? Less effective? Have limited effectiveness? There's no evidence of any effect whatsoever? You have to be precise.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#216

Post by mgh2 »

quaffapint wrote: post #66

I'm vaccinated and boostered by my own choice. My problem with mandates is where does it end? Why this mandate and not other mandates? Who gets to decide that?

I rather think of vaccination as a responsibility toward your fellow citizens, rather than a "choice".

This belief might be to blame for many of society's crises. https://trendguardian.medium.com/free-will-a-rich-fairy-tale...

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#217

Post by eli »

_fat_santa wrote: post #126
quaffapint wrote: post #66

I'm vaccinated and boostered by my own choice. My problem with mandates is where does it end? Why this mandate and not other mandates? Who gets to decide that?

What's aggravating is all the "feel good" policies that fly in the face of the current state of the pandemic. We have gotten to the point where numerous officials have said something along the lines of "vaccines won't protect you against getting Omicron, masks don't really do anything either". So you think. Ok, we have gotten to the point where these measures are ineffective, so lets do away with the measures. And th…

> numerous officials have said something along the lines of vaccines won't protect you against getting Omicron, masks don't really do anything either"

No they haven't. There's a pervasive anti-vax myth that Fauci "admitted" the vaccines don't work. Not true and didn't happen.

The data are very clear that vaccines reduce your chances of getting infected (not just seriously ill or dying, but getting infected in the first place). https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/effective...

Masks are also effective at preventing infection. Even "bad" masks are measurably better than nothing: https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118

Vaccines and masks absolutely work to reduce your chance of getting infected with covid. Further, if you do get breakthrough covid, vaccines greatly reduce the chances you will end up hospitalized or dead.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#218

Post by ekanes »

tyrrvk wrote: post #119
robrorcroptrer wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could the global obesity epidemic not also be handled through mandates?

You can't catch obesity from someone coughing in the same room as you. But to extrapolate further: Sugar taxes have been tried in countries - Mexico for one. I think there was massive backlash from CocaCola/Pepsi etc, for infringing on their freedom to make obscene profits. I seem to recall discussions here about some of the lawmakers finding Israeli spykits on their phones (the ones pushing for the sugar tax). edit:…

Quoting the NYT for anything related to Israel is likely biased.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#219

Post by drran »

Izkata wrote: post #212
sofixa wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any more details on the "masks don't work thing"? It's news to me, and i don't see how that could have changed - masks, even cloth ones, but even more so for surgical and N95 types, drastically limit how much virus you spread when you're contagious; and especially N95 also offer some protection against catching it. Especially for crowded places, masks seem like a no brainer.

Around a month ago Rochelle Walensky, director of the CDC, said in an interview (paraphrased) "cloth masks are ineffective against the transmissibility of omicron". (Edit: wrong person, here's video of what I'm remembering: https://mobile.twitter.com/townhallcom/status/14733056927149... ) (Anyway that was just intended as context for below, what I think may have been the starting point for a larger shift) Thing is, t…

Masks are effective against influenza. Swine flu + SARS-CoV2 can increase IFR up to 50x, i.e. we will have a "Spanish flu" level of epidemic again.

Re: Pfizer board member suggests end to mask, vaccine mandates

#220

Post by [deleted] »

packetlost wrote: post #204
walterbell wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their choice to not be vaccinated or wear masks results in people we love dying. If they are one of the 146 million Americans who recovered from Covid, they are at low risk of reinfection and thus transmission. The same cannot be said for Covid-naive, vaccinated people who can be infected and silently infect others due to symptoms being suppressed by the vaccine.

That's not at all how immunity or the vaccines work.

[deleted]
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