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Arch Linux – "It is what you make it"

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Re: Arch Linux – "It is what you make it"

#101

Post by hwkns »

Rusky wrote: post #52
LeafStorm wrote: post #47

The biggest draw of Arch for me is pacman. The system itself is incredibly simple (and incredibly fast), but more importantly, it's really easy to design and compile your own packages for it. To make a Debian package, you have to edit a bunch of control files, run a bunch of shell scripts, and then it packs all that up in some obscure cpio-based format. With Arch, on the other hand, it's one program - makepkg - with…

Definitely agree. The AUR makes it really easy to manage software not in the official repositories- without that it becomes difficult to keep track of what's installed and often impossible to uninstall. However, it would be nice if pacman used signed packages, especially in light of the recent kernel.org situation.

Package signing is in the works: http://allanmcrae.com/2011/08/pacman-package-signing-3-pacma...

Re: Arch Linux – "It is what you make it"

#102

Post by nsm »

tmhedberg wrote: post #19

I've been using Arch as my primary OS for about 1.5 years and have no inclination whatsoever to move away from it. Like many people, I previously used Ubuntu, but grew fed up with the focus of their development efforts on areas which I considered to be inconsequential. Seeing the direction that Ubuntu has taken since then, I'm glad I made that decision when I did. For me, the best thing about Arch is simply how flexi…

> For anyone who likes to tweak and tinker, and who loves having full control over their computing experience, I highly recommend it.

My experience has been the exact opposite. I've been using Arch for over 3 years now. And once I had the system configured for the first time, I've never had to mess with it at all. It is one of the simplest distros. And the packages are usually well maintained so that upgrades will automatically make the required changes or notify you about making them. It is surprisingly stable. Also whenever I've to install it on another machine, it takes just over an hour to install and then get it going with my custom config files etc. What I'm trying to say is that after the first time investment, its very very straightforward.

Re: Arch Linux – "It is what you make it"

#103

Post by lloeki »

Adaptive wrote: post #66
orblivion wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain to me what's so great about pacman? As of the last time I used Arch (a few years ago), you can't roll back to an old version unless it happens to be cached on your system. For a rolling release system it creates a lot of hassles. It seems like a very straightforward package manager, what does it have that apt doesn't have, for instance?

I think some of the other comments have addressed this, but I'll comment on the rollback issue. If you just want to rollback you can download the current package if it's not in your cache. If you want and rollback to previous version, there's downgrade and the Arch Rollback Machine https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Downgrade#ARM Really, though, it's never been an issue for me. I've yet to encounter a situation whe…

The only time it backfired at me is when the package you want to rollback to is not in your cache, and basically the only time it happens is for the version installed during the install phase: the installer does not copy the package from the install medium to the target package cache, as it uses it straight from the medium.

Re: Arch Linux – "It is what you make it"

#104

Post by SkyMarshal »

ra wrote: post #94
rkowalick wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been using Ubuntu now for a little over a year, and honestly, I find it incredibly tedious to do the most mundane amount of configuration. I want to adjust what programs get run at start up. On Arch Linux, I go to /etc/rc.d and remove or modify any scripts, which are clearly labelled. On Ubuntu, I think I need to weed through the dozen or so numbered /etc/rc directories and find what I need and modify. I got p…

On Ubuntu, rather than weeding through the rc folders, just look in /etc/init.d/ or /etc/init (for upstart). To make a program not start on startup, either apt-get remove it, or chmod -x the init script. I've used both Arch and Ubuntu extensively, and I like them both. For servers, I tend to use Ubuntu server edition, which really isn't that much different to Arch + a few hours of setup. It's really just a stripped d…

Thanks, I like Ubuntu Server as well. If it's good enough for Facebook (so I've heard, at least) it's good enough for me.

I currently run Ubuntu desktop 10.04, and several Ubuntu Servers in bridged VirtualBox vm's for development, which lets me simulate a multi-server production environment on my desktop.

However, I've been thinking about switching the desktop to Arch using Xmonad or i3, and KVM for the vm's (keeping Ubuntu Server).

Any experience running KVM on Arch? Assuming there's no issues with it.

Re: Arch Linux – "It is what you make it"

#105

Post by dknight »

Adaptive wrote: post #5

I switched from Ubuntu to Arch on my servers and linux desktops a while back. Here's are the key benefits from my perspective: - shallow mental model: I know where everything is, I know all the moving pieces - pacman: outstanding package manager. - aif: dieter has done a great job making a modular install framework. - AUR: compared to PPAs, AUR is simple and easy to contribute to (both commentary and packages) It rea…

A friend of mine did so too, on my suggestion. I have been using Arch for more than two years. I disagree that pacman is an outstanding package manager. It is very good though. You should try portage on Gentoo. I used Gentoo before going for Arch. I still have Gentoo and whenever I want a system to be stable for long time, I will use Gentoo. I use Arch because it is bleeding edge. From Gentoo I learnt so much that Arch practically had little less to offer. For a comparision check http://intosimple.blogspot.com/2011/09/arch-linux-my-perspec...

Re: Arch Linux – "It is what you make it"

#106

Post by steve___ »

SkyMarshal wrote: post #104
ra wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On Ubuntu, rather than weeding through the rc folders, just look in /etc/init.d/ or /etc/init (for upstart). To make a program not start on startup, either apt-get remove it, or chmod -x the init script. I've used both Arch and Ubuntu extensively, and I like them both. For servers, I tend to use Ubuntu server edition, which really isn't that much different to Arch + a few hours of setup. It's really just a stripped d…

Thanks, I like Ubuntu Server as well. If it's good enough for Facebook (so I've heard, at least) it's good enough for me. I currently run Ubuntu desktop 10.04, and several Ubuntu Servers in bridged VirtualBox vm's for development, which lets me simulate a multi-server production environment on my desktop. However, I've been thinking about switching the desktop to Arch using Xmonad or i3, and KVM for the vm's (keeping…

re: kvm - this might be of help: http://blog.falconindy.com/articles/build-a-virtual-army.htm...

Re: Arch Linux – "It is what you make it"

#107

Post by steve___ »

xfs wrote: post #17
codabrink wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I remember the same incident that you're talking about, it was a single file that had to be manually removed, and the fix was displayed right on the home page of http://archlinux.org for months..

The final solution could often need only minimal effort to carry out, but to debug and find out the problem, it takes much more time. And the fix should come in through the right channel, like the package README or ChangeLog. Not sure if the home page of the whole distribution is the appropriate place for a fix like this.

The message should show up on screen when installing the package. If many packages are upgraded at once, a user could miss it. The output is also sent to /var/log/pacman.log

All that said I'd recommend to anyone new to subscribe to the 'Latest News' RSS feed: http://www.archlinux.org/feeds/news/

Re: Arch Linux – "It is what you make it"

#108

Post by SkyMarshal »

steve___ wrote: post #106
SkyMarshal wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, I like Ubuntu Server as well. If it's good enough for Facebook (so I've heard, at least) it's good enough for me. I currently run Ubuntu desktop 10.04, and several Ubuntu Servers in bridged VirtualBox vm's for development, which lets me simulate a multi-server production environment on my desktop. However, I've been thinking about switching the desktop to Arch using Xmonad or i3, and KVM for the vm's (keeping…

re: kvm - this might be of help: http://blog.falconindy.com/articles/build-a-virtual-army.htm...

Great writeup, with scripts on github to boot. Thanks!

I also see qemu-kvm can run Windows too, which somehow escaped my notice. Cool. If only it could OS X as well, I could skip buying a Mac and spend the money on a souped up dev laptop from XoticPC instead.

Re: Arch Linux – "It is what you make it"

#109

Post by blasdel »

j-kidd wrote: post #69
LeafStorm wrote: post #47

The biggest draw of Arch for me is pacman. The system itself is incredibly simple (and incredibly fast), but more importantly, it's really easy to design and compile your own packages for it. To make a Debian package, you have to edit a bunch of control files, run a bunch of shell scripts, and then it packs all that up in some obscure cpio-based format. With Arch, on the other hand, it's one program - makepkg - with…

Also, in Debian, you have one guy maintaining a bunch of core packages: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=573745#310 If you deploy Debian/Ubuntu on servers, your fate is pretty much dependent on this guy, unless you roll your own packages, which wastes precious time.

Wow, he solely controls bash, binutils, build-essential, python, readline, etc: http://piuparts.debian.org/sid/maintainer/d/doko@debian.org....

Re: Arch Linux – "It is what you make it"

#110

Post by dknight »

nickik wrote: post #96
cageface wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen this cycle repeat endlessly in software: 1. New, popular system/language/app appears and gradually adds features and complexity in response to user requests as it catches on. Devs are personal and responsive. Users feel engaged. 2. Users grow disenchanted with the increasing complexity of the system. Developers burn out on support workload and slowly become more remote. 3. A new shiny, simple alternative ap…

Its not like arch is one year old im using it since quite some time. They trie to keep small not add anything not every user needs. If you wnat to build a complex Linux with arch, go and do so. Doesn't bather the rest of the arch users.

I agree to this. Arch has been out there for long enough; but it has been lean. To exemplify: it does not provide packaged Broadcom wireless drivers. You have to compile them yourselves.
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