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The window to deploy surveillance-resistant systems is running out

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Re: The window to deploy surveillance-resistant systems is running out

#41

Post by klyrs »

throwaway22032 wrote: post #31
core-utility wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a saying going around that the difference between a conspiracy theory and truth is 6-9 months. In other words, look at what the conspiracy theories are today for an idea of what could be understood as truth in the future. Caveat: obviously this is not 100%.

The term "conspiracy theory" is a slur intended to blur two distinct concepts into one. On the one hand, it means "insane school of thought". i.e. the Earth is flat. Something which is either totally off the wall, or at least unfalsifiable. On the other hand, it means "non-mainstream school of thought" i.e. phones are being used to track people. It might be true, might not (well, now we know it is), but it's totally…

Phones being used to track people: duh, both corps and govts are doing it.

Vaccines contain 5G chips being used to track people: conspiracy theory.

I think it's important to distinguish these two groups.

Re: The window to deploy surveillance-resistant systems is running out

#43

Post by core-utility »

hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #7

I'm sorry, but appealing to companies makes no sense. For one, it is against their financial interests, and second, if it can be introduced, it can be reversed. He should appeal to the media instead: they should make people aware not how much control they are giving away now, but how dangerous it can become in the future. But it seems to me very few people would listen or care.

I'd be curious on the media using this from a fear angle. In everything you have to ask yourself "where's the incentive". For decades, the Media (big-M) have relied on fear for viewership, because it sells. Sounds like they could pretty easily sell government surveillance as fear if they chose to. There's a lot of information to be had in why they're not currently doing this, be it their own fear of US government, China, etc.

Re: The window to deploy surveillance-resistant systems is running out

#44

Post by avgcorrection »

azangru wrote: post #29
choeger wrote: post #18

We are long beyond that point, sadly. We are right now in the process of a) becoming legally required to own and carry a particular kind of device and b) being legally unable to fully control said device and c) having that device explicitly working (again by legal requirement) against our own interests It will be interesting to watch how things will progress and whether governments or corporations will be the ones ho…

This fills me with dread, resentment and anger. I wanted a future where I would be the master of technology, and what I am getting instead is more of the "I can't let you do this, Dave" vibe. I want to live in a community of individuals, not be subjugated to whatever happens to feed the anxieties and neuroses of society. Is there... will there be a way to resist this obscenity?

> not be subjugated to whatever happens to feed the anxieties and neuroses of society.

That’s awfully vague. Are specters doing this to you?

Seems that some power analysis is in order.

Re: The window to deploy surveillance-resistant systems is running out

#45

Post by vanusa »

choeger wrote: post #18

We are long beyond that point, sadly. We are right now in the process of a) becoming legally required to own and carry a particular kind of device and b) being legally unable to fully control said device and c) having that device explicitly working (again by legal requirement) against our own interests It will be interesting to watch how things will progress and whether governments or corporations will be the ones ho…

Specifics needed on (a) please.

Re: The window to deploy surveillance-resistant systems is running out

#46

Post by JaimeThompson »

sh4un wrote: post #14
dbsmith83 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is ironic considering Russia and China are already quite authoritarian societies. China is especially heavy handed on the surveillance side of things.

Quoted post unavailable.

> every single individual believes they are entitled to some special rights and privileges because of entitlement

That is a strange way to describe the US Constitution.

Re: The window to deploy surveillance-resistant systems is running out

#47

Post by commandlinefan »

tazjin wrote: post #5

I think it's imperative that governments all over the world take steps to reduce dependence on American infrastructure. Russia is working on this, but it's a slow process - especially on the hardware side of things. If the US goes (more) rogue at some point, Europe will be left holding the bag. The sphere around Russia and China will make it, but what does Europe have?

> Europe will be left holding the bag

If your hopes for an anti-authoritarian future rest in Europe, you're in for a major disappointment. As had as it's gotten here in America, we're still doing better than the rest of the world - at least for now.

Re: The window to deploy surveillance-resistant systems is running out

#48

Post by tazjin »

commandlinefan wrote: post #47
tazjin wrote: post #5

I think it's imperative that governments all over the world take steps to reduce dependence on American infrastructure. Russia is working on this, but it's a slow process - especially on the hardware side of things. If the US goes (more) rogue at some point, Europe will be left holding the bag. The sphere around Russia and China will make it, but what does Europe have?

> Europe will be left holding the bag If your hopes for an anti-authoritarian future rest in Europe, you're in for a major disappointment. As had as it's gotten here in America, we're still doing better than the rest of the world - at least for now.

Oh yeah, I'm aware. My hopes aren't placed in Europe, I live in Moscow :)

It is fascinating that the topic seems to get so little thought in Europe though.

Re: The window to deploy surveillance-resistant systems is running out

#49

Post by buscoquadnary »

azangru wrote: post #29
choeger wrote: post #18

We are long beyond that point, sadly. We are right now in the process of a) becoming legally required to own and carry a particular kind of device and b) being legally unable to fully control said device and c) having that device explicitly working (again by legal requirement) against our own interests It will be interesting to watch how things will progress and whether governments or corporations will be the ones ho…

This fills me with dread, resentment and anger. I wanted a future where I would be the master of technology, and what I am getting instead is more of the "I can't let you do this, Dave" vibe. I want to live in a community of individuals, not be subjugated to whatever happens to feed the anxieties and neuroses of society. Is there... will there be a way to resist this obscenity?

It's interesting you say that I've recently started reading Dune, and one point that I found interesting was that the Butlerian Jihad was not a revolution where they swore of the machines who had become malicious against them but rather that some humans were using the machines to oppress other humans and that is what led to the Jihad. I find it interesting that all these technologies that are supposed to make our lives easier really just end up transferring power from one group of people to another.

So what I am saying is a Butlerian Jihad is always a solution.

Re: The window to deploy surveillance-resistant systems is running out

#50

Post by bacchusracine »

uejfiweun wrote: post #33
azangru wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This fills me with dread, resentment and anger. I wanted a future where I would be the master of technology, and what I am getting instead is more of the "I can't let you do this, Dave" vibe. I want to live in a community of individuals, not be subjugated to whatever happens to feed the anxieties and neuroses of society. Is there... will there be a way to resist this obscenity?

Either support the inevitable neo-Luddite revolution (probably will happen in next 10 years), or move out of the reach of the technological system. Both options will be very difficult.

>inevitable neo-Luddite revolution

Butlerian Jihad represent!

Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind.

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