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The window to deploy surveillance-resistant systems is running out

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Re: The window to deploy surveillance-resistant systems is running out

#31

Post by throwaway22032 »

core-utility wrote: post #22
sh4un wrote: post #8

The problem are the people who are blindly following along and calling the other 50% white supremacists for not following along. I think people are starting to give little credit to the tinfoil hat people because maybe out of all of us, their brand of crazy has merit.

There's a saying going around that the difference between a conspiracy theory and truth is 6-9 months. In other words, look at what the conspiracy theories are today for an idea of what could be understood as truth in the future. Caveat: obviously this is not 100%.

The term "conspiracy theory" is a slur intended to blur two distinct concepts into one.

On the one hand, it means "insane school of thought". i.e. the Earth is flat. Something which is either totally off the wall, or at least unfalsifiable.

On the other hand, it means "non-mainstream school of thought" i.e. phones are being used to track people. It might be true, might not (well, now we know it is), but it's totally plausible.

Once you realise that you basically come to the conclusion that people who waffle on about "conspiracy theories" aren't using sound reasoning, because they're not interested in being understood.

Re: The window to deploy surveillance-resistant systems is running out

#33

Post by uejfiweun »

azangru wrote: post #29
choeger wrote: post #18

We are long beyond that point, sadly. We are right now in the process of a) becoming legally required to own and carry a particular kind of device and b) being legally unable to fully control said device and c) having that device explicitly working (again by legal requirement) against our own interests It will be interesting to watch how things will progress and whether governments or corporations will be the ones ho…

This fills me with dread, resentment and anger. I wanted a future where I would be the master of technology, and what I am getting instead is more of the "I can't let you do this, Dave" vibe. I want to live in a community of individuals, not be subjugated to whatever happens to feed the anxieties and neuroses of society. Is there... will there be a way to resist this obscenity?

Either support the inevitable neo-Luddite revolution (probably will happen in next 10 years), or move out of the reach of the technological system. Both options will be very difficult.

Re: The window to deploy surveillance-resistant systems is running out

#34

Post by core-utility »

phkahler wrote: post #30
core-utility wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The TV show Upload [1] has a group of people dubbed the "Ludds" (i.e. Luddites) that refuse to be party to the turn that the technological revolution has taken and stick to traditional ways of doing things. I strongly believe if that were to happen in our world today, much of Silicon Valley would be "Ludds", while a mass of non-tech people would happily welcome our new technological overlords. [1]: https://www.imdb.c…

>> I strongly believe if that were to happen in our world today, much of Silicon Valley would be "Ludds", while a mass of non-tech people would happily welcome our new technological overlords. Which would be very interesting because it's the Ludds who are building that tech. But hey, it pays well...

Indeed a plot twist.

Re: The window to deploy surveillance-resistant systems is running out

#36

Post by viktorcode »

brightstep wrote: post #11

Tech companies only stand to gain from partnering with an invasive government. The idea that they'd side with us over the state that regulates them and provides a market to seek profit is a fantasy

Until their clients learn about it. And then they stand to lose.

Re: The window to deploy surveillance-resistant systems is running out

#37

Post by mbg721 »

throwaway22032 wrote: post #31
core-utility wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a saying going around that the difference between a conspiracy theory and truth is 6-9 months. In other words, look at what the conspiracy theories are today for an idea of what could be understood as truth in the future. Caveat: obviously this is not 100%.

The term "conspiracy theory" is a slur intended to blur two distinct concepts into one. On the one hand, it means "insane school of thought". i.e. the Earth is flat. Something which is either totally off the wall, or at least unfalsifiable. On the other hand, it means "non-mainstream school of thought" i.e. phones are being used to track people. It might be true, might not (well, now we know it is), but it's totally…

More specifically, both schools of thought that you mention involve powerful people taking intentional action, while the point of the slur is to convince you that a phenomenon is coincidence.

Re: The window to deploy surveillance-resistant systems is running out

#38

Post by core-utility »

throwaway22032 wrote: post #31
core-utility wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a saying going around that the difference between a conspiracy theory and truth is 6-9 months. In other words, look at what the conspiracy theories are today for an idea of what could be understood as truth in the future. Caveat: obviously this is not 100%.

The term "conspiracy theory" is a slur intended to blur two distinct concepts into one. On the one hand, it means "insane school of thought". i.e. the Earth is flat. Something which is either totally off the wall, or at least unfalsifiable. On the other hand, it means "non-mainstream school of thought" i.e. phones are being used to track people. It might be true, might not (well, now we know it is), but it's totally…

I agree with you mostly, with the exception that I think it used to mean "insane school of thought", but more recently people have been mislabeling those who have a non-mainstream school of thought the same in an attempt to slander. The effect seems to have weakened the term, and given power to some ideas which may have rightfully been conspiracy theories in the traditional sense.

Re: The window to deploy surveillance-resistant systems is running out

#39

Post by tazjin »

dandanua wrote: post #25
tazjin wrote: post #5

I think it's imperative that governments all over the world take steps to reduce dependence on American infrastructure. Russia is working on this, but it's a slow process - especially on the hardware side of things. If the US goes (more) rogue at some point, Europe will be left holding the bag. The sphere around Russia and China will make it, but what does Europe have?

Russia is working on terrorizing their neighbors, and suppression of their own population except super rich. Sure, every move they make is supplied with "blame America!", but I doubt that this "trick" really works nowadays.

I understand that this is the dominant view in the Western sphere and there's really no point arguing about it, our priors would be too different.

Doesn't change anything about what I said about tech dependence though, especially between Europe/US (where Russia is not in the picture at all).

Re: The window to deploy surveillance-resistant systems is running out

#40

Post by pydry »

dbsmith83 wrote: post #6
tazjin wrote: post #5

I think it's imperative that governments all over the world take steps to reduce dependence on American infrastructure. Russia is working on this, but it's a slow process - especially on the hardware side of things. If the US goes (more) rogue at some point, Europe will be left holding the bag. The sphere around Russia and China will make it, but what does Europe have?

This is ironic considering Russia and China are already quite authoritarian societies. China is especially heavy handed on the surveillance side of things.

Societies that feel collectively threatened trend authoritarian.

Both have a traumatic history of being invaded by empire builders and both have stark geographical vulnerabilities that left multigenerational scars.

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