Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

irishtimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

451–460 of 527 posts

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#451

Post by Chris2048 »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #425
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we could grow happy, stress free and well fed human beings. Then we wouldn't need so many transplants in the first place.

Oh we can, there was this guy in Germany that failed art school, he had a couple mates, they figured that with good genes, training and education they could... You see where this is going, right? Oh, what you describe actually might fit the book Brave New World as well. Anyway yeah I know what you mean, this is why things like education, well-paying low-stress jobs, housing, health care, access to food are so importa…

> You see where this is going, right?

Yes, a slippery-slope argument that all gene manipulation leads to eugenics.

Here's the counterpoint: The Nazis (and eugenicists / race-scientists in general) used the authority of science, but didn't actually do good science (and slipped in a lot of stuff that was pure ideology); so actual science is automatically different.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#452

Post by kingsloi »

KineticLensman wrote: post #413
sdenton4 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think two weeks after heart surgery is never fun... A few days ago I noted that recovering from having your sternum broken open takes 6-8 weeks to be able to resume daily basic activities under the best circumstances.

> A few days ago I noted that recovering from having your sternum broken open takes 6-8 Can also confirm. I received CPR which cracked some ribs. I had to sleep in a chair for the first 5 weeks because lying down flat and getting back up again was so painful. Sneezing and coughing were excruciating until I found the trick of 'hugging' oneself just before to reduce chest movement.

I was amazed at how soon I could pick up my baby after her 4 heart surgeries. Obviously, it was a bum scoop as opposed to picking her up under the arms (never had that luxury), and she was medicated, but literally 3-5 days after surgeries, we're back to having skin-skin. Maybe it's because their bones aren't as strong as an adults and there's more flex, but still, really took me by surprise. Even hours after surgeries, her diaper/nappy needed to be changed, so the nurses/I/we would carefully do it, but it was really eye-opening considering she just had major open heart surgery.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#453

Post by jgwil2 »

_fat_santa wrote: post #442
threshold wrote: post #305

Is this compassionate use or experimentation on a dying patient for the future benefit of the rest of us? I’m fine with the latter, if consensual. But only if we call it what it is.

From everything I read it was consensual. But that raises a larger moral question. Is it really consent if you're about to die? I think that almost anyone given the choice to either die or get a pig heart will choose the latter, there's a good chance you will die if you get the transplant but there is a 100% chance that you will die if you don't.

I don't think that is necessarily true - people reject potentially lifesaving treatments all the time for many different reasons. Yes, the desire to live is very strong in us, but it's not infinite.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#454

Post by dqv »

anonymousiam wrote: post #53

The article says; "Almost 22 years later the first ever xenotransplant has finally taken place." They seem to have forgotten about this baboon-to-human heart transplant from 1984. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_Fae

A podcast called Straight Talk MD talks about several different weird transplants like this in this episode: https://pca.st/episode/1628074d-b415-477b-b1f6-81c9d81fc261 (For Fame or Money? The Dark Side of Ten Amazing Medical Firsts on Straight Talk MD)

Of note is the disastrous synthetic heart in the 90’s. I was surprised that such a thing was attempted.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#455

Post by all2 »

ethbr0 wrote: post #409
admash wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't trust startup-bros either, without regulatory oversight. That being said, the hostility towards the FDA is not without basis (see below). Though I would argue that much of that hostility it due to it doing too little, rather than too much. Why is the FDA Funded in Part by the Companies It Regulates? https://today.uconn.edu/2021/05/why-is-the-fda-funded-in-par... Hidden conflicts? Pharma payments to FDA adv…

Why? Because citizens want an expert-staffed and functional regulatory body, but aren't willing to pay the tax necessary to fund it, at parity with private sector salaries. The root of all government problems is "We trust you to make decisions that impact a large amount of monetary value, but also pay you less than the amount of money flowing through you, and also pay you less than private industry would be willing t…

> Why? Because citizens want an expert-staffed and functional regulatory body, but aren't willing to pay the tax necessary to fund it, at parity with private sector salaries.

The FDA (and the CDC and others) and pharma sectors trade people all the time. There is a revolving door between the two. Medicine isn't the only place this happens. It happens in telecomm, military, manufacturing, and so on.

We have experts at all levels. Those same experts may or may not have patriotic tendencies. They are placed for their knowledge of their respective industries. They may also have a financial ax to grind.

Is there a conflict of interest? Only if the appointee was appointed by the other party. I argue that the apparent conflict of interest is only surface level. In the US we don't have "capitalism", we have "crony capitalism" that is verging on technocracy (rule of The Science and unelected bureaucrats).

> The root of all government problems is "We trust you to make decisions that impact a large amount of monetary value, but also pay you less than the amount of money flowing through you, and also pay you less than private industry would be willing to.

The kinds of people who make those decisions are paid very well, and if they make it out without media incident, they are nearly always guaranteed a job in the industry they used to regulate.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#456

Post by scohesc »

K5EiS wrote: post #334
_qua wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's difficult to do repeat surgeries in the chest.

Just install a window and some valves for easy replacement. Maybe you could even hot swap pig hearts.

If Apple can make magsafe for their laptops, then the medical industry can make magsafe for your heart - hot swappable hearts, a simple procedure! :P

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#457

Post by InitialLastName »

dnautics wrote: post #448
InitialLastName wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The market for counterfeit and unregulated chargers and electronics on Amazon/Alibaba (most all of which are UL marked) and fires related to the above suggests that the UL doesn't really have any teeth. It's possible that medical approvals would be less prone to this sidestepping of independent regulators, since much of the spending is proxied by insurance companies looking to maximize profits and minimize BS spendin…

There's also a wide range of things between the UL and FDA. Besides, if it's counterfeit, then it's not actually UL marked, so I'm not sure what your argument is.

> Besides, if it's counterfeit, then it's not actually UL marked, so I'm not sure what your argument is.

Consumers can't tell the difference between devices that are fraudulently or legitimately marked with the UL logo, and the UL doesn't appear to be able to do anything about the prevalence of fraudulent uses of the UL mark.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#458

Post by dotnet00 »

yitchelle wrote: post #272

For a layman like me on medical matters, it seems very strange that a pig's heart is used. Would it more logical idea to use a primate, our closest "cousin"?

Pigs have a lot of physiological similarity to us (thus why fetal pig dissections are often done in high school/undergrad biology). Plus there are fewer ethical concerns around using an animal we already use for food.

I imagine there's also a consideration for ease of raising. These pigs had to be kept separate from others and tested frequently for disease because of having some aspects of their immune system weakened to reduce rejection risk. This would probably be easier to do ethically for pigs compared to primates.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#459

Post by Valgrim »

henryw wrote: post #174

This reminds me of the movie The Island where they cloned people as organ backups https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0399201/ .

If you want to explore the concept further, I suggest you watch the movie "Never Let Me Go" (2010). The premise is very similar, apart from the fact there's no secret or conspiracy about it, children are just grown to become sacrificial organ donors, and since it's socially accepted, there's no way out of it.

Fair warning: it's pretty depressing.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#460

Post by Someone »

eric4smith wrote: post #244

A good test. The guy is older and wanted to remain alive, despite the wishes of his family. And pigs are so close to humans anyway -- which is why I have the theory of why humans love bacon so much. Best wishes to Mr. Bennett, and hope that whatever happens, it will be a good leap for humanity.

> And pigs are so close to humans anyway -- which is why I have the theory of why humans love bacon so much.

Are you claiming (most/many) humans are closet cannibals? I don’t agree with that.

Also, pigs aren’t particularly close to humans, genetically. In biological classification they even are in a different order (even-hoofed ungulates) than humans, who are primates.

⇒ I don’t think that theory makes sense.

Post reply on HN