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Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

irishtimes.com

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Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#421

Post by enchiridion »

bertil wrote: post #247
enchiridion wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It probably happens more than you think. Organs are doled out based on a rating system as evaluated by a small review board In the case of ties, the question of who “deserves” the organ is relevant to the board members. Uncomfortable but true. Also doesn’t really apply here as this guy had a last ditch experimental operation. The family in the article just wanted revenge.

The organ board base their decision on likelihood that the receiver will benefit from the transplant (for a long time), so some habits that are medically relevant are taken into account: smoking, drinking, taking drugs, and when AIDS was a concern, having sex with people who might transmit it. All those also come a moral judgement so many people assumed that the board was making a moral judgement. They are not: havin…

Yes, most of the time that’s true, and just about everything you mentioned can be boiled down to a single number.

Genuine ties do happen though, and at the end of the day the board is human.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#422

Post by inglor_cz »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #417
inglor_cz wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once you kill the pig for its heart and kidneys, you might as well eat it. Better than letting the nutritional value of the meat go to waste. That wouldn't be a lot of pigs, true, and a pork chop of that origin would be pretty expensive.

Nothing in an animal for slaughter goes to waste, they're too expensive for that. I mean the value of various parts like organ meat varies by what it's used for, but eventually everything is used up. A lot of offal ends up in animal feed, for example. And their hooves end up in keratine supplements for the gymbros.

These are genetically altered pigs with human genes inserted, though. I can see some people being uneasy about consuming them, either from moral or pragmatic (possible pathogenicity) point of view.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#423

Post by cobbzilla »

nicoburns wrote: post #354
hallway_monitor wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there was indeed a way to pull back the scope and power granted to the government I think a lot of us Americans would love to hear about it. The way it is, it seems like the US government is an unstoppable machine that will grow until it destroys itself.

I don’t think the American governments biggest problem is it’s scope and power: I think it’s biggest problem is inefficiency due to corruption (regulatory capture, etc). It seems to me that the biggest obstacle to fixing this is that many Americans see this as an inevitable character of government rather than something specific to their system, and thus spend their time trying to reduce government (ironically making…

The two are interrelated — regulatory capture doesn’t make sense if there’s no power to capture. So one must first grow the size and power of government through other means, then capture/influence that power. This cycle has been going on for a long time.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#424

Post by Workaccount2 »

treeman79 wrote: post #404
baldfat wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a weird muscle disease that is treated with just taking over the counter L-Carnitine. The issue, vitamins and supplements are not regulated. So, I will try to take a new brand and after a few days my symptoms will come back because the pills don't have the L-Carnitine like it says and there is no one to make sure it does. It will cost me four to seven days of pain, and no one is held responsible. My best guess…

I had to spend thousands to go through a dozen medications for medical issues. Eventually turned to supplements in part because it was much easier to experiment. I have a couple meds and treatments I’ve been begging doctors to try, but they aren’t aware of them so refuse to consider. Go onto any support forum and you’ll find countless tales of doctors not listening or not knowing current info on a condition.

You'll also find tons of people who swear by their home "witches brew" medication. People who are just feeling a placebo. Or people who think they have the forum's banner illness but actually have something totally different and much more benign. They heal over time naturally, but attribute it to gum root jelly concentrate.

I've been there a few times before. And while inevitably monkeys popping random pills will find something, separating the signal from the noise takes time and studies. The things that doctors pay attention too.

Disclaimer: Yes there are out of touch doctors and yes random medicating has lead to amazing discoveries.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#425

Post by Cthulhu_ »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #279
Buttons840 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then the next step is to do research showing that pigs that are happy, stress free, and eat a good diet produce organs that are better for transplant. If so, this might be one of the most ethical animal industries.

Maybe we could grow happy, stress free and well fed human beings. Then we wouldn't need so many transplants in the first place.

Oh we can, there was this guy in Germany that failed art school, he had a couple mates, they figured that with good genes, training and education they could...

You see where this is going, right? Oh, what you describe actually might fit the book Brave New World as well.

Anyway yeah I know what you mean, this is why things like education, well-paying low-stress jobs, housing, health care, access to food are so important. They encourage an overall healthy and happy population without imposing on them.

But the US is a bit of a shithole in that regard; low paying jobs, food deserts, financial worries, crippling debts to pay for a lifestyle that people can't afford but need, etc. The country and its policies are self-destructive, and, dare I say it, a kind of economic eugenics - if you're too poor to afford health care you'll be removed from the gene pool.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#426

Post by Cthulhu_ »

benatkin wrote: post #5

His victim's family (yes, really) doesn't like that he was the first to get a heart transplant. https://nypost.com/2022/01/13/historic-pig-heart-recipient-w... PETA doesn't like that anyone got a pig heart transplant. https://www.peta.org/media/news-releases/first-heart-transpl...

> PETA doesn't like [...] anyone

FTFY. PETA is a shit organization.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#427

Post by hamilyon2 »

radu_floricica wrote: post #254

I've said this before here and got downvoted for it, but bioethicists as a profession are responsible for more death than pretty much anything else I can quickly think of. People are dying from heart disease all the time, very often in predictable conditions. Literally millions every year. Statistically this means we should hear about such failed procedures many many more times than we do now - there is literally no…

I respectfully disagree. It is patient's right to refuse any medical procedure.

A mere suspicion, impression that doctors are not treating life and health of this particular patient with all sainctity will do a lot more harm than good.

I mean, life is precious, doctors should know this best and act like it is. Recklessness even in words will do a lot of harm. A lot of credit will be lost if standards slip even a little bit.

I know this very well because people around me are not vaccinated yet because they are suspicious of Sputnik-V. Yes, this is reality where I live. People are suspicious and refusing a life-saving procedure.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#428

Post by e-clinton »

jostmey wrote: post #8
phnofive wrote: post #2

Discussed here fifteen days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29882912 Not a huge update but an interesting discussion of FDA approval; can the FDA actually stop or sanction experimental procedures like this?

Yes, the FDA will insert itself to regulate medicine wherever it can. For example, the FDA has been pushing to regulate diagnostic tests as medical devices. It’s funny how Americans surrender medical autonomy to the government but draw a strict line in the sand in other issues

Everyone who isn’t an HCP “surrenders” medical autonomy since not everyone pretends to know better than the experts.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#429

Post by searine »

robbedpeter wrote: post #383
DrAwdeOccarim wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t sense hostility outside the typical vocal minority. Having straddled the FDA-regulated world and the libertarian-leaning internet cultures through the aughts and teens, my experience is that the internet libertarians are simply ignorant of how the FDA actually serves us. Pretty typically libertarian—freedom as long as nothing gets more dangerous. Kind of like rebellious children.

The fda is responsible for keeping hearing aids at insane prices my entire life. They serve as the gatekeepers for a cartel of once manufacturers, now IP holders (pure rent seekers,) who have successfully used the US government to exploit one of the most overlooked and vulnerable classes of people. Almost everyone loses hearing when they're older. When you live with hearing loss, it leads to social isolation and emba…

This One example is not just due to the FDA, but the larger medical system. Yes they shouldn't cost that much and it is a cartel that overcharges, but also yes medical devices need regulation to prevent hucksters from exploiting people.

The FDA doesn't set prices. The cartels provide a product that works, which as far as the FDA is concerned, is all they care about. The FDA does not set prices.

As of 2017 there is already laws being changed to help lower prices and provide OTC hearing aids.

>Government shouldn't be involved in hearing aids, except in the consumer protection arena.

That is what they are involved with...

You seem to have demonized the FDA over one issue they don't really control and are now throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#430

Post by albrewer »

threshold wrote: post #305

Is this compassionate use or experimentation on a dying patient for the future benefit of the rest of us? I’m fine with the latter, if consensual. But only if we call it what it is.

The guy would have died pretty soon without the procedure. If the choice is between dying for sure in a few weeks, or maybe dying in a few weeks but maybe not dying for another few years.... I'll take the 2nd option.
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