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Agatha Christie could afford a maid and a nanny but not a car

fullstackeconomics.com

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Re: Agatha Christie could afford a maid and a nanny but not a car

#321

Post by echlipse »

yreg wrote: post #197
freddie_mercury wrote: post #16

Agatha Christie's quote is well-known but the exact same situation still holds today in many countries. Here in Viet Nam it is extremely common for middle income families to have a maid or nanny (or both) but not a car. The cars themselves are quite expensive. A Honda Civic is $33,000 by itself whereas a nanny (6-days a week, 10 hours a day) is $400-500/month and a maid who works 9 hours a week, i.e. 3 days a week, 3…

I don't think it's reasonable to quote the price of a new car (which is in tens of thousands) when determining whether someone can afford a car. I sold my last car for €500 and it wasn't in the worst shape.

Most middle class families who can afford a car in developing nations rarely buy used cars/motorcycles. Giving the scenario in India. Vehicles are treated as a luxury here which are bought much later in a person’s life. Most families don’t even buy a car in India. It’s takes a lot of money to maintain it and it is very costly to drive one. The vehicle which you’ll find in every household here is a motorcycle and that too in mostly between 150cc-200cc engine range. The reason for that too is because lesser the cc, cheaper the bike, more the mileage.

Re: Agatha Christie could afford a maid and a nanny but not a car

#322

Post by blutack »

NoPie wrote: post #303
blutack wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She lived in central(ish) London, where today still a car isn't a necessity or particularly useful other than for travelling to the greater UK or specific jobs.

That's also true in many big cities (Singapore, New York). This article fails to consider this point of view that she really didn't need the car similarly to many people living in those places today. The fact that she could afford a maid and nurse, maybe was because she was wealthier than majority of population. If she was in 1% of income bracket (that would be $421,926 per year in the US), then it is not unusual for…

Ah yes, I think I was agreeing with you than not everywhere is dependent on cars even today, and many of my London based friends neither own cars or have licenses.

I'm sure in her time if you lived outside the city a car would be higher up the list of desirables as it would have a material impact on your day to day life.

The article could probably do with a contrasting source comparable to Agatha's wealth but from the countryside (even the "home counties") as the spending patterns would be very different.

Re: Agatha Christie could afford a maid and a nanny but not a car

#323

Post by barry-cotter »

igorkraw wrote: post #221
fxtentacle wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

50 years ago, Germany also still had a popular saying "Eigentum verpflichtet" which I would translate as "ownership creates a duty". In short, people who owned companies, large plots of land, or other infrastructure were expected to spread their wealth by creating jobs. Nowadays, the spirit still lives on somewhat in the fact that we have free public scenic hiking trails through what looks like very expensive private…

"private property is subordinate to the common good" is even in our "Constitution" (grundgesetz, literally foundational law), although it has been neutered by precedent and other laws. The right of way is a concept which is still strong in a bunch of countries, including England and famously Norway where "Allemansretten" allows "all men" the right to camp in public spaces. I personally find these habitual rights an i…

> The right of way is a concept which is still strong in a bunch of countries, including England and famously Norway where "Allemansretten" allows "all men" the right to camp in public spaces.

This is like saying France and the US both have freedom of speech. Technically true but the difference in how strong the laws are between Nordic countries and England is enormous.

Re: Agatha Christie could afford a maid and a nanny but not a car

#324

Post by Blahah »

mcorning wrote: post #160
telesilla wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>people expect him to do this. Right, it's part of how society works. In some places, having a housekeeper is a critical part of the economy and its incredibly impolite not to have one, if you are part of the expat class.

I'm surprised to hear that it is impolite to not have a housekeeper if you are an expat. To which places are you referring?

Very true currently in Kenya, if you integrate at all. People don't usually live in isolation, they are part of a local community and it's natural and expected that they share opportunities and risks with their community. If you can afford to, you are expected to hire other people to do things that save you time and energy, distributing your wealth in the local economy. Having a housekeeper, one or more people responsible for childcare, a gardener (if you have a garden), etc, are all very normal and it lifts everyone up.

Re: Agatha Christie could afford a maid and a nanny but not a car

#325

Post by soapdog »

stavros wrote: post #172
jiggunjer wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But expat doesn't automatically mean wealthy.

It does, otherwise they're called immigrants.

That is not how it was taught to me. Expat is when your job moves you to a new country, as in "you're an expatriate employee". Immigrant is when you move for your own reasons. Expats are expected to come back to their original country, or move to a third one at some time. Immigrants are establishing themselves in the new country.

Re: Agatha Christie could afford a maid and a nanny but not a car

#326

Post by ineedasername »

freddie_mercury wrote: post #44
paxys wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll still need to give them a car to drive.

Exactly. Everyone I know here with a driver owns the car themselves and hires the driver separately. I don't know driver salaries since I don't have one but I'm guessing they are similar to nanny salaries since they are usually full-time 8am-8pm, 6-days a week kind of jobs. The only people without their own car tend to be foreign executives who are only going to be here on a 2-3 year contract.

Driver salaries would likely have been much higher because the position wouldn't also cover room & board. Also the gender differences in pay would influence things as well. Last is that household cleaning etc. would have been considered lower skilled labor.

This document indicates that somewhere around $20-$30 per week may have been the wage, around page 128. https://fraser.stlouisfed.org/files/docs/publications/bls/bl...

Re: Agatha Christie could afford a maid and a nanny but not a car

#327

Post by radicalbyte »

goodpoint wrote: post #313
fxtentacle wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in Japan, some maid services are more like cosplaying escorts. https://toyokeizai.net/articles/-/100650 https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/11/10/national/u-n-of...

Not at all. There are cosplay cafe' where employees cosplay whatever role or character and there are real housekeeping services. Japanese people can tell the difference between reality and cosplay.

> Japanese people can tell the difference between reality and cosplay.

That quote would look good in a meme.

Re: Agatha Christie could afford a maid and a nanny but not a car

#328

Post by hnlmorg »

ejb999 wrote: post #319
hnlmorg wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given our history, I was assuming there was some expectation that duties might also include requests of a sexual nature. I really hope that's not the case. But we (rich white people) don't exactly have a good track record in these types of situation. :(

>>But we (rich white people) don't exactly have a good track record in these types of situation Wow, nice generalization - do you get all your 'facts' from the movies?

I don't watch movies.

Bare in mind I'm not suggesting an entire race is frequently abusing their maids to this day. What I'm saying is there is recorded history of it happening. You only have to dig through some of the abuses that happened during the slave trade to see evidence of this fact. So we do indeed have a bad track record in this regard. It might be an uncomfortable truth for some of us to hear but it doesn't make it any less true.

Re: Agatha Christie could afford a maid and a nanny but not a car

#329

Post by te_chris »

angry_octet wrote: post #311
namdnay wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve noticed that in India, it’s cheaper for a foreigner to book an Uber car than hail an auto rickshaw, because the former can’t discriminate

Surely Uber can very much discriminate? Tourist prices for tourists. And Uber definitely knows you're a visitor.

Uber, an American company with heavy presence in Western countries, is not going to do that. It would be suicidal.

Re: Agatha Christie could afford a maid and a nanny but not a car

#330

Post by mensetmanusman »

drivers99 wrote: post #87
kingcharles wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My girlfriend is Qatari and it is almost universal there to have a live-in maid.

Maybe a dumb question: How could it be universal. I’m assuming the maid doesn’t have a maid, right?

Qatari is something like 10% citizens 90% migrant labor from Africa, so universal for citizens would be correct.
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