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The history of the end of poverty has just begun

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Re: The history of the end of poverty has just begun

#331

Post by avgcorrection »

gitfan86 wrote: post #40
WalterBright wrote: post #33

The end of poverty began in the US around 1800, when the specter of famine was finally eliminated. Throughout the 19th century, Americans grew in height and life expectancy, resulting in America's poor being the richest poor people in the world. Today, America's poor have a better quality of life than medieval kings.

This is a hard pill for society to swallow. On the poor end people legitimately feel like they are not well off because they have so much less than many others. On the high end, rich people don't like the idea that 200 years from now they will be seen as relatively poor.

I bet that being poor is in fact a harder pill to swallow than all of that.

Re: The history of the end of poverty has just begun

#332

Post by avgcorrection »

WalterBright wrote: post #282
DarylZero wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you somehow unaware of migration into Europe?

They'd rather come here. I've met Afghan refugees here, and refugees from the Middle East. You bet they'd rather be in the US.

Afghan refugees know from experience that the heart of the Western Empire is the least likely place to be bombed.

Re: The history of the end of poverty has just begun

#333

Post by dejv »

Abishek_Muthian wrote: post #300
h0l0cube wrote: post #254

Could we classify the lives in tribes and villages prior to civilisation as "poverty"? Or did "poverty" begin with civilisation?

This is exactly what I had in mind, thanks for asking. Are those tribes who are still living a secluded life in the forests of Amazon or say even those who are completely isolated like in Indian ocean islands considered poor? They've had everything they need and unless there's no external interference(Humans, Weather events e.g. Tsunami) they're living a successful life. Also I have serious issues with the term 'Civi…

I was born on perifery of comunist country during at the time when regime started to colapse. All the people worked either at local state farm or one of few factories that were around.

We all were equaly poor and even if you had money there were few things you can buy anyway. You had a house (build by yourself) and food. If you were in good standing with government, you might get a chance to go to international holiday (in other eastern bloc country). Going anywhere in west would be totaly cost prohibitive even if they allowed to do it. Buying coffee in Vienna (closest big city) would easily cost 3 months of your paycheck.

So you were poor and you know you are poor, but it doesn't matter that much. 30 years later you can easily spot the difference in what does it means to be poor in developed economy: easily available loans and brain drain destroyed the periphery communities as whole. Now people are poor, they know it and they can compare to more well off everyday.

Re: The history of the end of poverty has just begun

#334

Post by avgcorrection »

kragen wrote: post #328
avgcorrection wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Poverty comes from lack of opportunity (usually due to centralization of control), perverse incentives (often due to lack of centralization of control), ignorance, delusion, and other kinds of mental problems, not from limited natural resources or from "a small group of people consuming vastly more." “Mental problems”—did people fail to Think and Grow Rich or something?

Listen, I don't know if you have anyone in your family with mental problems, but it's very common for them to result in poverty, despite having what would appear to be opportunity, well-aligned incentives, knowledge, and correct beliefs. And I really don't think this is a thing you should be making fun of.

I was making fun of the apparent idea that some people are poor because they have the wrong attitude. So that was not what you meant. You are still wrong however, and your opinion is harmful in my opnion.

Mental issues may only cause poverty if there is a lack of safety net. Homeless people with Schizophrenia is ultimately caused by policy decisions. Schizophrenic people are more likely to be homeless in certain developed countries compared to others.

Re: The history of the end of poverty has just begun

#335

Post by bradhilton »

avgcorrection wrote: post #318

> I calculated that at a minimum the world economy needs to increase five-fold for global poverty to substantially decline. This is in a scenario in which the world would also achieve a massive reduction in inequality: inequality between all the world’s countries would disappear entirely in this scenario. It should therefore be seen as a calculation of the minimum necessary growth for an end of poverty. > A five-fold…

I read that as saying that even if we adopt climate change measures necessary for their 'Sustainability Scenario', that will invariably hamper economic growth, the IPCC still believes we will achieve more than a five-fold increase of the global economy this century.

Re: The history of the end of poverty has just begun

#336

Post by notahacker »

post_from_work wrote: post #290
yesbabyyes wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At first, I was confused reading your assertions of what poor people of the US can do, things that obviously demand money - cash or credit - that a person in poverty don't have. With your final sentence I realized you're not talking about poverty at all, but the wealthy, which in a sense clarified things, but also made me confused: what does your comment have to do with this discussion?

>>>At first, I was confused reading your assertions of what poor people of the US can do, things that obviously demand money - cash or credit - that a person in poverty don't have. A homeless, flat-broke prostitute can turn 4 tricks in a day. Let's call them $50 each, for $200 cash-in-hand. Then they can take that $200 to Wal-Mart, buy an Android phone for $50, a SIM card for $50, and one of those loadable debit card…

I don't imagine many people would trade sitting on a throne in a grand hall enjoying a feast whilst watching the era's leading performers personally dedicate performances to them for the possibility of selling their body to download a superhero movie and buy a burrito and packet of cigarettes.

There are some tradeoffs where the average person doing a boring middle class job really does have better opportunity and greater security than pretty much anyone in pre 20th century history (and some forms of ancient kingship that really weren't pleasant lifestyles), but let's not take it to reductio ad absurdum levels

Re: The history of the end of poverty has just begun

#337

Post by kragen »

avgcorrection wrote: post #334
kragen wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Listen, I don't know if you have anyone in your family with mental problems, but it's very common for them to result in poverty, despite having what would appear to be opportunity, well-aligned incentives, knowledge, and correct beliefs. And I really don't think this is a thing you should be making fun of.

I was making fun of the apparent idea that some people are poor because they have the wrong attitude. So that was not what you meant. You are still wrong however, and your opinion is harmful in my opnion. Mental issues may only cause poverty if there is a lack of safety net. Homeless people with Schizophrenia is ultimately caused by policy decisions. Schizophrenic people are more likely to be homeless in certain deve…

This comment is not up to the standards of this site, or indeed of decent human discourse, and I suggest that you delete it immediately. Specifically, you are lying about what I have said in order to smear me, while contributing no insight of your own, and all of this on a sensitive emotional issue.

Re: The history of the end of poverty has just begun

#338

Post by avgcorrection »

kragen wrote: post #337
avgcorrection wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was making fun of the apparent idea that some people are poor because they have the wrong attitude. So that was not what you meant. You are still wrong however, and your opinion is harmful in my opnion. Mental issues may only cause poverty if there is a lack of safety net. Homeless people with Schizophrenia is ultimately caused by policy decisions. Schizophrenic people are more likely to be homeless in certain deve…

This comment is not up to the standards of this site, or indeed of decent human discourse, and I suggest that you delete it immediately. Specifically, you are lying about what I have said in order to smear me, while contributing no insight of your own, and all of this on a sensitive emotional issue.

I cleaned it up for you.

> Specifically, you are lying about what I have said in order to smear me

I did not.

Re: The history of the end of poverty has just begun

#339

Post by hd4 »

Is anyone aware of any studies which looked into the impact/correlation of global poverty as a result of moving to fiat currency away from a gold standard?

I know even bringing this up is unpopular but I can't think of a bigger elephant in the room, if there is one I'd like to know.

Re: The history of the end of poverty has just begun

#340

Post by dejv »

dejv wrote: post #333
Abishek_Muthian wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly what I had in mind, thanks for asking. Are those tribes who are still living a secluded life in the forests of Amazon or say even those who are completely isolated like in Indian ocean islands considered poor? They've had everything they need and unless there's no external interference(Humans, Weather events e.g. Tsunami) they're living a successful life. Also I have serious issues with the term 'Civi…

I was born on perifery of comunist country during at the time when regime started to colapse. All the people worked either at local state farm or one of few factories that were around. We all were equaly poor and even if you had money there were few things you can buy anyway. You had a house (build by yourself) and food. If you were in good standing with government, you might get a chance to go to international holid…

What I want to say, there is poverty and poverty.

It is very different being poor in functioning community of similarly poor people, where people barther among themselves and being poor in developed country, where you are isolated from wide society or living in society with widespread drug/alcohol/mental illness problems in debt and no way out.

All the fantasy of cotagecore, simple life, #vanlife, home steading is basically trying to get into former type of being poor: not being stressed by work that much, having little societal asspiration, living with other similary minded people (even if that means watching each other posts on social media) and such.

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