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Bolt founder on Stripe/YC

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Re: Bolt founder on Stripe/YC

#311
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's the main result of the post, then it's a reductio, because YC funds competitors all the time and would never turn down an innovator for anti-competitive reasons—only because they thought it wouldn't be a good investment at that moment. Anything else would both be bad for YC's business and against its principles ( https://www.ycombinator.com/principles/ ). Of course it still happens that YC turns down good c…

Curious about the funding competitors part. What enables YC to do this, why aren't other VCs able to fund competitors? Has this ever resulted in conflicts or lawsuits between companies? Lots of questions appreciate any insights.

Disruption

Re: Bolt founder on Stripe/YC

#312
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could a competitor have its employees flag a submission? Does HN have automatic vote manipulation detection? Does HN have automatic flag manipulation detection?

Yes, we've worked a lot on detecting such manipulation. I looked into whether it was employees doing the flagging, but I didn't include that in the GP because I can't tell for sure who was or wasn't an employee. What I did find is that of the flaggers, most haven't ever voted for a stripe.com submission (before or since). There were two flaggers who have voted for quite a few stripe.com submissions, but not enough to…

This is strange and sort of answer some of the question I have had about HN. Personally I dont flag stories much, ( I wish I could look back at the history of post I flagged LOL ) I just dont vote on it.

I am surprised so many people decided to flag a post just because it is Enterprisy. It may also be the case some people create account for submission, voting and flagging purposes. And only participate in minor discussions to gain / wash karma points.

Re: Bolt founder on Stripe/YC

#313

Public fights can occasionally be net positive for one of the participants, but your arguments will be publicly scrutinized and they better be watertight. If the logic you presented is your best work, then I can easily see why you've experienced some trouble in getting people to support you. Let's start with the very first argument you presented: getting rejected by YC is a clear proof of collusion. Getting rejected…

I don't think you're using the word "contrarian" correctly.

persecution complex is probably more accurate.

Re: Bolt founder on Stripe/YC

#314
post #312
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, we've worked a lot on detecting such manipulation. I looked into whether it was employees doing the flagging, but I didn't include that in the GP because I can't tell for sure who was or wasn't an employee. What I did find is that of the flaggers, most haven't ever voted for a stripe.com submission (before or since). There were two flaggers who have voted for quite a few stripe.com submissions, but not enough to…

This is strange and sort of answer some of the question I have had about HN. Personally I dont flag stories much, ( I wish I could look back at the history of post I flagged LOL ) I just dont vote on it. I am surprised so many people decided to flag a post just because it is Enterprisy. It may also be the case some people create account for submission, voting and flagging purposes. And only participate in minor discu…

That wasn't the case here - at least the flaggers looked legit to me, and they had long pre-histories as normal users. The thing to understand about flagging is that people mostly flag stuff when they see it on the front page and they don't feel it's good enough to be there. Different users have opposing opinions about what content counts as 'good' on HN—so some will upvote an article while others will indignantly flag it ("WTF is this doing on HN?") once they see it. The front page is a composite of this struggle between upvotes and flags, based on different tastes. It's actually a rather intense struggle because frontpage space is so scarce (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...). But it's mostly not manipulation—it's just that to most people, their own taste about what's 'good' is so obvious to them that for someone else to have a different taste feels impossible—it simply has to be disingenuous!

I have a theory which I didn't post yesterday because it's speculation—but it's speculation that fits my intuition about how HN works, so maybe I'll share it in case anyone's interested.

I speculate that some users upvoted Bolt's post because they thought it would be funny to see "How Bolt does fraud detection better" in a cage match with Stripe's "Improved fraud prevention" on the front page at the same time, as briefly happened—see #5 and #6 here: https://web.archive.org/web/20180418212112/https://news.ycom.... In other words, classic internet drama.

The two titles are so similar that I wonder if Bolt had seen Stripe's post on the front page and rushed their article out to challenge it with that baity title. (If you look at https://web.archive.org/web/20180418211511/https://blog.bolt..., you'll see that the article itself had a completely different title.) That would certainly have been clever! Either that or it was just a coincidence, but either way, some users would have seen both, would have found the collision hilarious, and would have upvoted for that reason.

Since that has nothing to do with article quality, you would expect other users to then see the article on the front page, go "WTF is this doing on HN", and flag it. This is standard HN dynamics: baity title -> upvotes -> annoyed users -> flags. That's how the front page operates all day.

If this is what happened, then Bolt only made HN's front page in the first place because Stripe's article was already there—which would add considerable irony to yesterday's antics.

Re: Bolt founder on Stripe/YC

#315
post #184

His claims about HN are false. Short version: his post was 2+ hours later than Stripe's, not an hour earlier, and fell in rank because users flagged it, not because moderators did anything (which I suppose is what his mafia/mob language was intended to imply). The longer version is going to involve a tedious barrage of links, but I want this to be something that people can check for themselves if they care to. Quotin…

>> I had a bunch of other things I wanted to say here, but mercifully, I've forgotten them.

I'm stealing this lol

Re: Bolt founder on Stripe/YC

#316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no such thing as a "false flag", just as there's no such thing as a "false upvote". Fradulent? Abusive? Sure. But true/false implies these things are objective.

While you are probably technically correct, remember many here are not native English speakers. Given the quotes it seems poster was aware that the word wasn't perfect. I'd try something along the lines of "I guess the word you are looking for here is fraudulent or abusive".

That’s kind of passive aggressive in my opinion (I believe you’ll disagree, and that’s fine), I’m unlikely to adopt that communication style.

Re: Bolt founder on Stripe/YC

#317
post #156

I call bs on this. HN #1 don't generate millions of views. You don't need manipulation to get #1 often, OCaml posts do it often even if the language is not used by anybody. Anyone can be rejected from YC. Anyone can struggle to raise funds. There are two many vc to raise from all of them. How could stripe launch and post about a feature in a few hours? Sequoia is not the most powerful vc in the world, it actually doe…

Yeah, I posted a devtool that i thought was interesting and got on the front page.

Re: Bolt founder on Stripe/YC

#318
post #184

His claims about HN are false. Short version: his post was 2+ hours later than Stripe's, not an hour earlier, and fell in rank because users flagged it, not because moderators did anything (which I suppose is what his mafia/mob language was intended to imply). The longer version is going to involve a tedious barrage of links, but I want this to be something that people can check for themselves if they care to. Quotin…

I really want to read those notes you've written (I've sent you an email).

Paul Graham, Patrick Collison and Vitalik Buterin all have this ability to express ideas in an extremely deep yet clear and concie way.

It's one thing to do this individually, but what amazes me is their ability to scale out this communication sty;e to their entire organization. If you read any of the blog posts by YC, Stripe and the Ethereum Foundation you'll understand what I mean. You can also see how it stands so far ahead of most other companies.

A recent example that comes to mind for anyone interested: Ethereum Foundation's blog post explaining why they're moving away from calling their upgrades "Eth2"and just calling it "Eth" instead.

https://blog.ethereum.org/2022/01/24/the-great-eth2-renaming...

As a founder myself, I really want to figure out the tactics to scaling clear and effective communication to an entire team.

Re: Bolt founder on Stripe/YC

#319
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but if someone makes statements about HN or YC that I know to be false, I believe it's my job to correct them—especially since we can't treat this kind of post in the way we normally moderate HN ( https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... ). What do you think I should do instead?

I think people have already made their mind but if you want to share more information, I would suggest being 100% transparent and releasing any internal communication (emails/text/slack) about Bolt.

I don't understand what sort of communication you're talking about. If you mean internal communication at the time (back in 2018), there wasn't any. If you mean internal communication yesterday - there was a bit (e.g. someone pointed me to the thread), but what value would there be in releasing it?

Re: Bolt founder on Stripe/YC

#320

Going back to at least 2015, YC was blocking TechCrunch from covering the 500 Startups backed.

That doesn't sound right to me at all. What is the evidence for this?

I'm not part of every conversation at YC of course, but I've been in many, including many where TechCrunch was mentioned, and I never heard anything about "blocking" (that actually sounds absurd to me) or any indication that YC had power over TC. It was the other way around; YC or YC startups were always hoping that TC would cover a story and not always getting what they hoped for.

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