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Nature Neuroscience offers open access publishing for $11k per article

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Re: Nature Neuroscience offers open access publishing for $11k per article

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a sample size of one, go ahead and ask them: https://twitter.com/hwitteman/status/1015049411276300289

how ironic that her blog post on how to access paywalled articles is currently "Access Denied" https://holly.witteman.ca/index.php/2017/12/11/getting-acces...

The path has changed (link rot) but the article is still searchable and viewable: https://holly.witteman.ca/getting-access-to-paywalled-papers...

Re: Nature Neuroscience offers open access publishing for $11k per article

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Most journals already allow authors to distribute copies by request." Does anyone know how this works in practice ? I'd like to ask a few of my favorite researchers for a copy of their papers but I am a hobbyist and don't want to take their time and add to their likely overflowing inbox. BTW, "this is nuts" isn't a claim you can make if you don't know the answer to questions you posted. From their website: "an artic…

As a hobbyist, I just email the author, thank them for their work, maybe ask a question about or comment on their work and ask if they have the specific paper I can't get. Nobody's ever said no and I've asked dozens if times in CS, linguistics and for some climate and geography stuff. Academics are pretty accessible and even willing to chat about their work as long as you're not a crank.

I was super surprised the first time I emailed a researcher and asked them a question about their work while mentioning I didn't have access to their paper. A week later an envelope arrived at my office with the paper in it. This was last millennium.

Re: Nature Neuroscience offers open access publishing for $11k per article

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conferences cost money. You have to rent an appropriate venue, people tend to expect refreshments, etc. Why would it be free just because you are presenting there? So are most of the attendees.

Whenever I speak at a tech event, my attendance cost is free. (I'm still on the hook for flight and hotel, usually.)

Those events usually aren't the ones where most of the attendees are presenting, though sometimes things like Bar Camps can get the venue etc. sponsored. Finding sponsors to foot the bill can be harder for conferences for academics who aren't interested in leaving their tenure-track position to configure Kubernetes at a hot new Uber for Guinea Pigs startup.

Still, church picnics, potluck dinners, and wedding parties usually don't cost US$600 a person. Do we really need the Anaheim Convention Center or the Four Seasons Hotel to hang out and chat about capability-secure hardware architecture or isopiestic measurements of deliquescence points? Or could we maybe pitch some circus tents in a field somewhere and rent some folding chairs and tables? Instead of whiteboards we can use 4'x8' melamine sheets.

Re: Nature Neuroscience offers open access publishing for $11k per article

#64
post #9

What in the world? I have a hard time seeing this as anything but a racket, or possibly a legal maneuver to increase standing to sue Sci-Hub or something ("Look, we've offered free access already!") How much did Nature Neuroscience pay to produce these articles? Do they pay their editors? Their reviewers? The authors? Do they pay their typesetters? Do they offer their print journal for free? Do they have expensive co…

I am not sure there is any requirement that your price be based on the cost of your bill of materials. Would shut down a lot of companies that are like "$30,000 per year for SSO". It probably costs them less to let you log in with Google than it does to store your password hashes, and yet it's always the "no, you have to pay us more" option. The thing with these journals is that they have name recognition that makes…

In a well-functioning market, the price of goods should eventually shrink to their cost of production. If they do not, that's a monopoly.

Re: Nature Neuroscience offers open access publishing for $11k per article

#65
post #7

https://blog.joss.theoj.org/2019/06/cost-models-for-running-... "The Journal of Open Source Software (JOSS) is a free, open-access online journal, with no article processing charge (APC). We are committed to operating as a free service to our community, and we do so thanks to the volunteer labor of editors and reviewers, and by taking advantage of existing infrastructure. In this post, we examine the true costs of ru…

PNAS, in case anyone is not aware, is the journal where members of the Academy of Sciences publish research they can't publish anywhere else for various reasons.

It's a dumping ground for PIs desperate to get something published.

Re: Nature Neuroscience offers open access publishing for $11k per article

#66
post #7

https://blog.joss.theoj.org/2019/06/cost-models-for-running-... "The Journal of Open Source Software (JOSS) is a free, open-access online journal, with no article processing charge (APC). We are committed to operating as a free service to our community, and we do so thanks to the volunteer labor of editors and reviewers, and by taking advantage of existing infrastructure. In this post, we examine the true costs of ru…

I published a paper in JOSS and it was by far the most pleasant and transparent journal submission and review process I’ve ever gone through. It felt like the future of academic publishing that I wish we could have distributed more widely today.

Re: Nature Neuroscience offers open access publishing for $11k per article

#67

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2020/11/24/nature-add-op... gives some background: > Someone must read and evaluate submissions regardless of whether they are accepted or rejected. That means under an open-access model where revenue is only collected from authors whose work is published, costs per published article are much higher at very selective journals than they are at less selective journals. But mostly it…

> Someone must read and evaluate submissions regardless of whether they are accepted or rejected.

That's done by academics in the field who won't be paid for their time and effort.

Re: Nature Neuroscience offers open access publishing for $11k per article

#68
post #7

https://blog.joss.theoj.org/2019/06/cost-models-for-running-... "The Journal of Open Source Software (JOSS) is a free, open-access online journal, with no article processing charge (APC). We are committed to operating as a free service to our community, and we do so thanks to the volunteer labor of editors and reviewers, and by taking advantage of existing infrastructure. In this post, we examine the true costs of ru…

Go JOSS! Yes, the cost is excruciating and beyond excessive. Given that every submission can be preceded by multiple bioRxiv versions and followed by a definitive PubMed Central version that was reviewed (perhaps embargoed for 6-12 months), who actually pays these charges? I suspect this is a theoretical charge in most cases. The exception might be for those who are compelled to provide immediate unfettered access to…

I have seen publisher making open access mandatory, with an outrageous fee attached to it.

Also,iirc the pubmed central thing only apply to works with certain funds (i.e. NIH), many articles do not get to there.

Re: Nature Neuroscience offers open access publishing for $11k per article

#69

This seems like a fair price. If there are 30 articles in an issue of Nature that’s 360,000 per issue assuming everyone eventually publishes open access and subscriptions go to zero. That seems like a very reasonable cost for editing etc.

This is sarcasm, right?

Re: Nature Neuroscience offers open access publishing for $11k per article

#70
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nature pays their editors, unlike most society journals. But they are a for-profit business, and are clearly just looking for more profit. The expected lifetime value of any article in Nature Neuroscience for the authors is well above $11,390, as that is probably 1% of the typical grant that will produce the article, and getting published in this venue makes it much easier to continue to get grants funded, to get top…

Is the typical grant for a Nature Neuroscience study really over $1.1 million?

If we assume that most studies that get into Nature Neuroscience are NIH R01s, which have a cap before you need to start fleshing out the budget in exacting detail of $125,000 in direct costs per year, and we assume a 50% overhead rate...

We get $937,500. That's not far off, and center grants, large cooperative agreements, etc. probably give the distribution a decently long tail.

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