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The history of the end of poverty has just begun

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Re: The history of the end of poverty has just begun

#201

Post by s1artibartfast »

mbrodersen wrote: post #191
WalterBright wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The homeless issue in the US is much more of a drug addiction and alcoholism problem than a down on one's luck problem. Something like 90% of the homeless are in that category. > Who needs plumbing when you have a servant to bring you whatever you want? I like hot showers. I bet you do, too. Besides, what do you think happens to kings when they get a toothache? No anesthetic, nothing to be done except an idiot with a…

So the 40 million Americans living below the poverty line with zero access to health care or dental services are living like kings? Really? May I suggest that you talk to some of them and ask if they feel like Kings/Queens?

Source? Why don't they have medicaid? It covers everyone under the 140% the poverty line.

Re: The history of the end of poverty has just begun

#202

Post by TulliusCicero »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #163
ProfessorLayton wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution to your housing costs isn't increased payments, but cheaper housing. Housing prices are spiraling out of control almost everywhere because we refuse to build more of it through asinine zoning restrictions. High housing costs have such ripple effects on the cost of everything else that it's incredibly frustrating to see everything else but cheaper and more available housing be proposed as a means to help…

> we refuse to build more of it We also refuse to move to cheaper places. I still think from time to time, "what's stopping 10k smart young people from just moving into empty land?"

Infrastructure, jobs, coordination, state and local regulations, capital. The list goes on.

Your comment is a particularly egregious example of, "I could do that in a weekend." Internet commenters tend to blithely assume hard things are easy.

Re: The history of the end of poverty has just begun

#203

Post by nobodyandproud »

ProfessorLayton wrote: post #138
willjp wrote: post #135

I'd be much happier if UBI proposals were higher. Living on ~900$/month nowadays would be difficult. 20 years ago I was able to split rent for a tiny concrete windowless-basement-bedroom for 450$/mo, trimmed my grocery/cleaning bill down to 100$/mo by eating nothing but rice, beans, and frozen vegetables, 120$/mo for a phone and internet (which I consider essential), and another ~80$/mo in bus tickets. That's ~750$/m…

The solution to your housing costs isn't increased payments, but cheaper housing. Housing prices are spiraling out of control almost everywhere because we refuse to build more of it through asinine zoning restrictions. High housing costs have such ripple effects on the cost of everything else that it's incredibly frustrating to see everything else but cheaper and more available housing be proposed as a means to help…

That isn’t a solution either, because individuals and businesses with the money will simply snap-up the real estate.

Discouraging multi-ownership and preventing residential ownership by business mes needs to happen as well.

Re: The history of the end of poverty has just begun

#204

Post by [deleted] »

kryogen1c wrote: post #189
danschmitt wrote: post #24

It is always nice to see such narratives based on robust data. For similar stories backed by data I can also recommend the book "Factfulnes" by Hans Rosling [1]. When we talk about basic needs, our global community is making tremendous progress. At the same time, we should not forget that the same system that abolishes poverty also creates enormous inequality, which not only makes people unhappier, but also leads to…

> creates enormous inequality i dont know why everyone keeps getting away with statement like this. the proposition of equality as a meaningful metric is absurd at every level of examination. no one is equal to anyone else except on the most trivial and simplistic terms about anything. do you feel inferior to rich people? do you feel superior to poor people? what hogwash. i reject this axiom that inequality is bad. p…

[deleted]

Re: The history of the end of poverty has just begun

#205

Post by qqqwerty »

sokoloff wrote: post #162
zozbot234 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$900/mo. is near the high-end of the feasible UBI range. If you want to live on your UBI, it's pretty much expected that you'd move to the lowest-cost feasible area, and content yourself with a somewhat dignified subsistence. UBI has by far the most potential as a supplemental income to low-skilled, entry-level or low-intensity work. The key aim is to make it seamless for people to enter or leave the job market as th…

If you doubled federal individual income taxes for everyone in the US, you could pay each adult US citizen around $750/mo in UBI with that increase. If you doubled ALL federal income taxes in the US, you could pay each adult US citizen ~$1500/mo in UBI. And of course, the higher you set UBI, the less point there is to work like a chump and pay 2x current tax rates so other people don’t have to, so fewer people would…

"Doubling income taxes" sounds scary, but a large portion of the working population would roughy break even as the increase in taxes would simply be offset by the UBI they receive.

A negative income tax is probably the best way to implement a UBI as it would require only distributing money to those that are below the income threshold, and it would prevent political opponents from trotting out big scary numbers on how much it would cost, while ignoring the necessary accounting required to truly estimate the financial impacts.

Re: The history of the end of poverty has just begun

#206

Post by bikamonki »

This is per capita right? So a family of 5 making $4500/mo in Bolivia would be considered rich, the same family with that income in London is barely surviving.

Not sure how these percentages will move if adjusted for purchasing power. Maybe half the world isn't poor anymore? Or maybe 90% still is?

Re: The history of the end of poverty has just begun

#207

Post by boucher »

kryogen1c wrote: post #189
danschmitt wrote: post #24

It is always nice to see such narratives based on robust data. For similar stories backed by data I can also recommend the book "Factfulnes" by Hans Rosling [1]. When we talk about basic needs, our global community is making tremendous progress. At the same time, we should not forget that the same system that abolishes poverty also creates enormous inequality, which not only makes people unhappier, but also leads to…

> creates enormous inequality i dont know why everyone keeps getting away with statement like this. the proposition of equality as a meaningful metric is absurd at every level of examination. no one is equal to anyone else except on the most trivial and simplistic terms about anything. do you feel inferior to rich people? do you feel superior to poor people? what hogwash. i reject this axiom that inequality is bad. p…

Inequality has nothing to do with feeling superior or inferior to others (though, our culture absolutely does encourage those beliefs).

In a world with limited resources, huge levels of inequality necessarily means that a small group of people are consuming vastly more of the available resources than everyone else. It also tends to concentrate political power in the same small group. Many people would say there is something inherently unfair about this.

I think these things aren't as separate from your concerns as you make them out to be.

Re: The history of the end of poverty has just begun

#208

Post by nemothekid »

WalterBright wrote: post #148
noahtallen wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Today, America's poor have a better quality of life than medieval kings. This can’t be true. Just look at the homelessness situation across the US. No shelter, no income, no sanitation. That is certainly worse quality of life than a king. You must starting your definition of poor quite a ways up the income scale. Maybe you could make make an argument for solidly middle class and above? Even then, there are even a l…

The homeless issue in the US is much more of a drug addiction and alcoholism problem than a down on one's luck problem. Something like 90% of the homeless are in that category. > Who needs plumbing when you have a servant to bring you whatever you want? I like hot showers. I bet you do, too. Besides, what do you think happens to kings when they get a toothache? No anesthetic, nothing to be done except an idiot with a…

>The homeless issue in the US is much more of a drug addiction and alcoholism problem than a down on one's luck problem.

This is more like a convenient truth. How many of those people become homeless, then turn drugs? It's not like the US's social safety net is particularly robust, and even just being on the street for a week can expose you to the violent way the homeless are treated.

Re: The history of the end of poverty has just begun

#209

Post by austincheney »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #199
Guest42 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. To me it seems as though a small handful of corporations owns a large percentage of multi-tenant housing and an increasing percentage of single tenant houses and is able to set prices algorithmically and that other landlords price similarly.

A handful of corporation own most of the grocery stores, but grocery prices remain reasonable, nowhere close to as insanely priced as rent. The difference is real competition: there's only so much land that exists, and localities only allow so much housing on that land. Demand goes way up, supply goes up only feebly, the result is predictable.

Rent is not ownership.

Re: The history of the end of poverty has just begun

#210

Post by WalterBright »

nemothekid wrote: post #208
WalterBright wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The homeless issue in the US is much more of a drug addiction and alcoholism problem than a down on one's luck problem. Something like 90% of the homeless are in that category. > Who needs plumbing when you have a servant to bring you whatever you want? I like hot showers. I bet you do, too. Besides, what do you think happens to kings when they get a toothache? No anesthetic, nothing to be done except an idiot with a…

> The homeless issue in the US is much more of a drug addiction and alcoholism problem than a down on one's luck problem. This is more like a convenient truth. How many of those people become homeless, then turn drugs? It's not like the US's social safety net is particularly robust, and even just being on the street for a week can expose you to the violent way the homeless are treated.

Drug addiction leads to homelessness, as the addict's priority is always getting the drugs. Things like jobs, friends, family, sense, are all sacrificed for the drugs. Everything is sacrificed, and so they wind up on the street.

Treating a homeless drug addict as a victim of poverty is like giving cough medicine to a person with lung cancer. It does not work.

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