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Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

irishtimes.com

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Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#121

Post by bsder »

emptyparadise wrote: post #12
benatkin wrote: post #5

His victim's family (yes, really) doesn't like that he was the first to get a heart transplant. https://nypost.com/2022/01/13/historic-pig-heart-recipient-w... PETA doesn't like that anyone got a pig heart transplant. https://www.peta.org/media/news-releases/first-heart-transpl...

>“The key principle in medicine is to treat anyone who is sick, regardless of who they are,” said Arthur Caplan, a bioethics professor at New York University. “We are not in the business of sorting sinners from saints. Crime is a legal matter.” This is so simple and newspapers trying to make it into a matter for debate is actually compromising that.

It is even simpler than that.

Someone who has served their time in prison and is now released is considered to have paid their debt to society.

You may think, as I do, that this man served nowhere near what he should have for the crime he committed. However, the law has been followed and he is no longer in prison.

If the people the New York Post is targeting think that he should still be punished, then he should still be in prison. The problem is that the type of people clamor for these people to stay in prison also are at the forefront of refusing to pony up the money to pay for that prison.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#122

Post by dkjaudyeqooe »

sydthrowaway wrote: post #27

I am not a vegan but this is unethical

How? Is inserting animal parts into your body via your mouth fine but not via a hole in your chest? Both sustain life, both mean the pig lives relatively comfortably as a domestic animal for a while. Surely that's better than never been born at all.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#123

Post by benatkin »

josefrichter wrote: post #116
benatkin wrote: post #5

His victim's family (yes, really) doesn't like that he was the first to get a heart transplant. https://nypost.com/2022/01/13/historic-pig-heart-recipient-w... PETA doesn't like that anyone got a pig heart transplant. https://www.peta.org/media/news-releases/first-heart-transpl...

Haven’t you learned anything from M.A.S.H.?

Would M.A.S.H. teach me to put the peta link first?

Just kidding, I think I know what you mean.

I think the main problem is not the life saving but the good publicity the guy gets. I'm not going to publicly agree or disagree with either article right now, though - I'm conflicted about each of them.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#124

Post by graderjs »

nautilius wrote: post #98
graderjs wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The weird thing about saying "Do not save those who took another's life" is that you are saying, "The person took a life. That's bad. We should punish them for the bad thing." Then saying, "Let's take their life to punish them." (not saving a life you could being essentially the same as life taking, to me, here). To me, you are undermining your view that life-taking is bad, by engaging in it yourselves. To me, this i…

So, thieves cannot be fined for their crimes (take their money after they took someone else's), kidnappers cannot go to jail (take their freedom after they took someone else's) - because it would undermine, what exactly? That makes no sense.

Well it makes sense to me. Your reading is a little bit uncharitable. Seems almost like you didn't make any effort to understand it, and just rather pretend that it's stupid...Sigh. But I suppose I could have helped you by saying the other part which I think about this:

That's why the legal system is so important. We need a way to do these things, that's not about individuals getting revenge. So...you kill Alice, then society takes it up with you, through their legal/punitive officers--rather than Alice's family.

But even so...that doesn't fully resolve it for me, the paradox I see there.

But at the same time, I get your point of view. I mean, what that means we can't punish anyone? Because we don't want to seem bad, by pushing back against the bad people? Are you saying we just turn the other cheek? That's crazy.

Yeah, I get that...But I think it's important...You do some crime, and I say, "I have to get back at you". But no, I'm the one that has to be moral. Individuals have to be moral. The state doesn't have to be moral in the same way. But we can't let that spill over to individuals otherwise everything collapses.

I mean, I'm not saying I can resolve this right here--and your strong reaction to what I said, indicates that I have raised a complex, subtle point that's not easy to resolve. People face stuff like that, it's difficult, so they react strongly, or emphatically, like you did.

So I think we need the state, the organs of the state, to be able to enact this violence on our part (take their money, their freedom, their life--maybe? I'm not sure about the last one). Then we can afford to be moral and live up to that, and that's good overall. It's not perfect but then what other options do we have?

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#125

Post by benatkin »

buryat wrote: post #110
benatkin wrote: post #5

His victim's family (yes, really) doesn't like that he was the first to get a heart transplant. https://nypost.com/2022/01/13/historic-pig-heart-recipient-w... PETA doesn't like that anyone got a pig heart transplant. https://www.peta.org/media/news-releases/first-heart-transpl...

a pig deserves a pig's heart

A literal pig.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#126

Post by dkjaudyeqooe »

chana_masala wrote: post #38
sydthrowaway wrote: post #27

I am not a vegan but this is unethical

Maybe I can add some nuance as a vegan (I'm vegan btw, and I use Arch btw). I think that it's amazing that this is possible, but where it seems unethical to me is that there still are many other ways we could route heart transplants from willing humans. I think the only way I'd find this ethical is if the pig died from natural causes. But that probably complicates using the heart. If a pig is killed for food and then…

Animals eat each other alive in the wild, they kill on a whim for the pettiest of reasons.

Dying at the hands of another animal is as natural a cause as you can get. Because we're human we don't treat animals badly while alive, that where our ethics come in.

Obviously if there enough hearts to go around no one would be looking at pigs.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#127

Post by cguess »

emptyparadise wrote: post #12
benatkin wrote: post #5

His victim's family (yes, really) doesn't like that he was the first to get a heart transplant. https://nypost.com/2022/01/13/historic-pig-heart-recipient-w... PETA doesn't like that anyone got a pig heart transplant. https://www.peta.org/media/news-releases/first-heart-transpl...

>“The key principle in medicine is to treat anyone who is sick, regardless of who they are,” said Arthur Caplan, a bioethics professor at New York University. “We are not in the business of sorting sinners from saints. Crime is a legal matter.” This is so simple and newspapers trying to make it into a matter for debate is actually compromising that.

No post body was provided.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#128

Post by teewuane »

benatkin wrote: post #5

His victim's family (yes, really) doesn't like that he was the first to get a heart transplant. https://nypost.com/2022/01/13/historic-pig-heart-recipient-w... PETA doesn't like that anyone got a pig heart transplant. https://www.peta.org/media/news-releases/first-heart-transpl...

Not to invalidate that person and family's feelings, but it was from 1988, not recently.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#130

Post by SEJeff »

repiret wrote: post #93
ekianjo wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Well there is this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_controversies_involv...

Most posters who use the phrases "newsflash" or "wake up" are not posting in good faith.
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