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Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

irishtimes.com

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Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#101

Post by giantg2 »

foota wrote: post #18
giantg2 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's still serving his sentence, right? At least he's being useful as a guinea pig. Maybe it's selfish, but at least it's data that will help the next person. Frankly, I could care less what the family thinks. If they feel so strongly, then they should advocate for some legislative change. Most families would kill if given the option, and also the luxury of having someone else do it for them.

Doesn't sound like it, it was 24 years ago according to the article, and they had a ten year sentence.

I mean it doesn't affect the time they did.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#102

Post by siva7 »

unmole wrote: post #90
smrtinsert wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a limit to this impartiality? Should we have saved Hitlers life with a breakthrough transplant?

> Is there a limit to this impartiality? No. > Should we have saved Hitlers life with a breakthrough transplant? Yes. It really is not complicated: Doctors are not in the business of judging their patients.

It’s not that simple. Doctors judge, at least in their own mind and that influences survival decisions.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#103

Post by dghlsakjg »

graderjs wrote: post #88
burrows wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The key principle in medicine is to treat anyone who is sick, regardless of who they are. The victims family is saying “Our principle is that people who stab Ed should not get a heart, therefore David should not get a heart.” The doctor is saying “Our principle is that we don’t use the patient’s past violence or convictions to determine whether they should get a heart or not, so the stabbing doesn’t disqualify Davi…

The weird thing about saying "Do not save those who took another's life" is that you are saying, "The person took a life. That's bad. We should punish them for the bad thing." Then saying, "Let's take their life to punish them." (not saving a life you could being essentially the same as life taking, to me, here). To me, you are undermining your view that life-taking is bad, by engaging in it yourselves. To me, this i…

It’s worth pointing out that the stabbing victim didn’t die. It sounds like the stabbing had long term health effects, though.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#104

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

anonymousiam wrote: post #55
TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> was charged with intent to murder and openly carrying a concealed weapon, among other charges. I know what a concealed weapon is, but what is 'openly carrying a concealed weapon'?

I'm carrying a concealed weapon right now. (It's a S&W .380 M&P.) I have a card in my wallet that makes this completely legal in the state where I live, and in 35 other states. I'm always amazed at the culture clash between the anti-gun lobby (including the press), and people who choose to exercise an important constitutional right. A gun is just a tool. It can be used for both good and bad purposes. Also, the NY Pos…

That's great, but none of it answers the question.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#105

Post by yboris »

emptyparadise wrote: post #12
benatkin wrote: post #5

His victim's family (yes, really) doesn't like that he was the first to get a heart transplant. https://nypost.com/2022/01/13/historic-pig-heart-recipient-w... PETA doesn't like that anyone got a pig heart transplant. https://www.peta.org/media/news-releases/first-heart-transpl...

>“The key principle in medicine is to treat anyone who is sick, regardless of who they are,” said Arthur Caplan, a bioethics professor at New York University. “We are not in the business of sorting sinners from saints. Crime is a legal matter.” This is so simple and newspapers trying to make it into a matter for debate is actually compromising that.

Side-comment that doesn't apply in this case, but worth mentioning: "regardless of who they are" seems like a shitty blanket principle to have. For example, hospitals are overstuffed with COVID patients means regular patients die as a result. In many cases, "The overwhelming majority of the patients had COVID-19, and 98% of those needing acute critical care were unvaccinated." This means people who choose to not take the vaccine are causing others to die. So the unvaccinated should be thrown out when a patient in need comes and no beds are available.

https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/health-care-pri...

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#106

Post by creato »

stult wrote: post #65
CamperBob2 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who commit crimes should not get a heart can be transformed to Only people who have not committed crimes should get replacement hearts . The problem is, who hasn't committed crimes? Which crimes count? Who decides? That question makes the more-topical issue When the ER fills up, should unvaccinated people be treated by administering carbon monoxide in the hospital parking garage? look trivial to resolve, in co…

Seems pretty damn simple to me. If you wouldn’t put someone to death for a crime, you shouldn’t deny them medical care in a manner that will kill them for the same crime. It’s functionally and legally the same as putting them to death. Withholding necessary medical care is the same as withholding food, water, air, or shelter.

We deny people waiting for organ transplants medical treatment regularly. there simply aren't enough organs to go around. In the case that people are already having life saving organs withheld from them, it makes sense to prioritize.

I think people have the ethical issue in this case backwards: the reason this guy got this transplant is because it was an experiment. We effectively used an ex-con as a guinea pig. (Personally, I'm fine with that, he was fully aware and consented, it was his only chance.)

If this guy had died due to the experimental heart failing, we'd probably be seeing a bunch of op-eds about our moral failure to prevent exploitation of a vulnerable (ex-)prison population.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#107

Post by oh_sigh »

dghlsakjg wrote: post #103
graderjs wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The weird thing about saying "Do not save those who took another's life" is that you are saying, "The person took a life. That's bad. We should punish them for the bad thing." Then saying, "Let's take their life to punish them." (not saving a life you could being essentially the same as life taking, to me, here). To me, you are undermining your view that life-taking is bad, by engaging in it yourselves. To me, this i…

It’s worth pointing out that the stabbing victim didn’t die. It sounds like the stabbing had long term health effects, though.

The stabbing victim was wheelchair bound and later died from a stroke directly related to the stabbing.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#108

Post by dkjaudyeqooe »

drenvuk wrote: post #21

I'm a full on speciesist. let's do more of this. since we're already eating them I feel like this even a more reasonable usage of their lives. can we do kidneys next please? we can basically shut down most dialysis clinics after that.

The next logical step is to breed pigs with organs that especially suit humans, maybe with some genetic engineering to optimise them. I really can't see anyone needing an organ complaining that they're GMO.

As long as we treat animals well while they're alive (and why wouldn't you, you want high quality low stress organs) then there's really no limit here, morally.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#109

Post by dvt »

bamboozled wrote: post #43
sydthrowaway wrote: post #27

I am not a vegan but this is unethical

Anyone care to emphasize why this opinion should be down voted so heavily ? It's ok to now breed animals for parts; However if someone questions the ethics of that, it's bad? Ridiculous...

It's a typical reddit-level-effort comment. These and annoying puns get automatic downvotes from me. Maybe a bit shortsighted, but I solely use HN for highbrow intellectual discussion, debate, and insight. The only reason I'm so protective of this kind of discussion is that HN is literally the only venue left.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#110

Post by buryat »

benatkin wrote: post #5

His victim's family (yes, really) doesn't like that he was the first to get a heart transplant. https://nypost.com/2022/01/13/historic-pig-heart-recipient-w... PETA doesn't like that anyone got a pig heart transplant. https://www.peta.org/media/news-releases/first-heart-transpl...

a pig deserves a pig's heart
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