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Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

irishtimes.com

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Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#31

Post by ridaj »

benatkin wrote: post #5

His victim's family (yes, really) doesn't like that he was the first to get a heart transplant. https://nypost.com/2022/01/13/historic-pig-heart-recipient-w... PETA doesn't like that anyone got a pig heart transplant. https://www.peta.org/media/news-releases/first-heart-transpl...

I see many answers arguing that doctors treat everyone the same regardless of their criminal past. That's ethically right, and the victim's family doesn't have to like it either. PETA doesn't have to like it either. My grandmother doesn't have to like it either. Maybe the victim's family would've been happy that he got the transplant if that had caused him to die; maybe PETA would be happy if pigs got transplants from humans. Thankfully it doesn't really matter what the victim's family or PETA thinks of it.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#33

Post by rory »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #20
benatkin wrote: post #5

His victim's family (yes, really) doesn't like that he was the first to get a heart transplant. https://nypost.com/2022/01/13/historic-pig-heart-recipient-w... PETA doesn't like that anyone got a pig heart transplant. https://www.peta.org/media/news-releases/first-heart-transpl...

> was charged with intent to murder and openly carrying a concealed weapon, among other charges. I know what a concealed weapon is, but what is 'openly carrying a concealed weapon'?

The knife had a fake mustache and googly eyes glued on as he waved it around, so people didn't realize it was a weapon.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#35

Post by jessriedel »

foo92691 wrote: post #17
emptyparadise wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>“The key principle in medicine is to treat anyone who is sick, regardless of who they are,” said Arthur Caplan, a bioethics professor at New York University. “We are not in the business of sorting sinners from saints. Crime is a legal matter.” This is so simple and newspapers trying to make it into a matter for debate is actually compromising that.

"The New York Post (NY Post) is a conservative[8] daily tabloid newspaper published in New York City. The Post also operates NYPost.com, the celebrity gossip site PageSix.com, and the entertainment site Decider.com." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Post

The NY Times and Washington Post also had silly articles that presented this as a serious debate.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#36

Post by mlyle »

emptyparadise wrote: post #12
benatkin wrote: post #5

His victim's family (yes, really) doesn't like that he was the first to get a heart transplant. https://nypost.com/2022/01/13/historic-pig-heart-recipient-w... PETA doesn't like that anyone got a pig heart transplant. https://www.peta.org/media/news-releases/first-heart-transpl...

>“The key principle in medicine is to treat anyone who is sick, regardless of who they are,” said Arthur Caplan, a bioethics professor at New York University. “We are not in the business of sorting sinners from saints. Crime is a legal matter.” This is so simple and newspapers trying to make it into a matter for debate is actually compromising that.

> This is so simple and newspapers trying to make it into a matter for debate is actually compromising that.

Even if one were to consider moral character when allocating organs in general: the researchers needed someone who was sick and likely to die, ineligible for human organ transplant (here, because of severity of condition), and not so sick that there was no chance of success or useful data.

So, we're already picking someone who doesn't meet the normal rules.

And, of course, considering moral character when allocating organs probably isn't a great idea.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#37

Post by jessriedel »

userbinator wrote: post #32

I wonder how long it'll last, given the pig it came out of was probably already an adult, and pigs live far shorter lives than humans.

It's an important question, but the typical donated human organ only lasts ~10 years, which doesn't have much to do with the donor's age.

https://wexnermedical.osu.edu/blog/how-long-do-transplanted-...

Donors are usually 35-50 at time of donation, so way more than 10 years away from average life expectancy. The donated organs fail for other reasons.

There are many examples of donated organs living past 100 (years since donor's birth) even though the number of humans who live that long is quite rare.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3731752/The-woman...

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200625-the-woman-with-a...

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#38

Post by chana_masala »

sydthrowaway wrote: post #27

I am not a vegan but this is unethical

Maybe I can add some nuance as a vegan (I'm vegan btw, and I use Arch btw). I think that it's amazing that this is possible, but where it seems unethical to me is that there still are many other ways we could route heart transplants from willing humans. I think the only way I'd find this ethical is if the pig died from natural causes. But that probably complicates using the heart. If a pig is killed for food and then the heart is used for this, it still wouldn't be ethical to me, because it's plainly not ethical to kill another being for one's benefit in a situation that is not purely for survival (everyone's favorite deserted island). A heart transplant is a situation of survival, but again - we should continue to explore human donors first.

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#39

Post by exabyte »

userbinator wrote: post #32

I wonder how long it'll last, given the pig it came out of was probably already an adult, and pigs live far shorter lives than humans.

Don't get talk about people "feeling" the person from whom they received the transplant inside them? If so, how would a pig seem?

Re: Two weeks later David Bennett is alive, his pig’s heart beating soundly

#40

Post by corobo »

meowface wrote: post #16
paxys wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh PETA, always have to butt in just to keep themselves relevant. For the first one, I can totally understand what the victim's family must be going through, but doctors aren't (and shouldn't) be in the business of making moral judgements on who should and shouldn't get to live. There is an established process in place for organ transplants (time on the wait list, viability of the transfer) and that's all that needs…

[deleted because I didn't articulate this well]

> to me it honestly seems pretty reasonable if hospitals were to lower the priority of people who've been convicted of serious, deliberate violent offenses (where "serious" can be rigorously defined based on charges/sentences), given the very limited supply and high demand. Perhaps even restrict it to cases where the victim died, like this one.

Why would anyone want to add complexity to triage would be my knee jerk wonder, it’s supposed to be a quick process

Would the hospital need to wait for the legal system to get back to them before treatment can begin? How would you know if the patient has committed a crime without waiting?

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