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The old internet shows signs of quietly coming back

cheapskatesguide.org

21–30 of 409 posts

Re: The old internet shows signs of quietly coming back

#21
> Just as radio stations, newspapers, and television networks were the communications gatekeepers of earlier generations, we now have Internet gatekeepers keeping us in line, on line--preventing our voices from being heard by too widely

I am about the same age as the author of this piece. I think they are making a fundamental error with his comparison.

"Back in the day", radio stations, newspapers and television networks were the only actual public media (we could include zines perhaps, but they rarely had the printing capacity to reach a large audience). Their status was conferred by their capital requirements, legal status and in some cases, physical properties.

Today's internet gatekeepers only have the role they do because of network effects, and because people implicitly grant them that role. None of them have licenses from any government to do what they do (business license, sure; not a license to serve specific kinds of content the way that TV stations do).

The only thing preventing my voice from being heard more widely is that most people are watching/listening/reading in places I don't have the desire or capacity to conquer. But there are no hypothetical barriers to me becoming a wildly adored prophet, I just have to do the work.

I think it is both dangerous and misleading to make this comparison, but more significantly, it is also misdirecting. It leads us away from what we would need to do if we actually want to build alternatives, and instead draws comparison with utterly different media and legal frameworks.

Re: The old internet shows signs of quietly coming back

#22
post #7

I sure hope that's right. It was the best feeling in the world to stand up an Apache server on my Amiga, and later my little FreeBSD server, and see my friends viewing the website I was hosting on my dialup connection. It wasn't pretty, it wasn't elegant, and it certainly wasn't fast, but it was mine . I made that. From installing the server to writing the HTML, I owned that service from end to end and had completely…

Yeah no, I wish we don't go back to that. It doesn't scale at all.

HTML scales exceptionally well

Re: The old internet shows signs of quietly coming back

#23
A four-fold increase in Gemini usage doesn't tell me much. Even a 100x increase wouldn't be surprising or meaningful for something that started at zero usage just 13 months ago. We're talking about a total of 2000 capsules, which is cool, but just not enough of a signal to make predictions off of. I already knew there were at least 2000 highly technical people in the world willing to experiment with a new protocol: if Gemini crosses over to moderately technical, moderately motivated people, that will be more interesting.

Re: The old internet shows signs of quietly coming back

#24
post #7

I sure hope that's right. It was the best feeling in the world to stand up an Apache server on my Amiga, and later my little FreeBSD server, and see my friends viewing the website I was hosting on my dialup connection. It wasn't pretty, it wasn't elegant, and it certainly wasn't fast, but it was mine . I made that. From installing the server to writing the HTML, I owned that service from end to end and had completely…

Yeah no, I wish we don't go back to that. It doesn't scale at all.

nimforum*, which powers the official Nim forums, doesn't scale for shit, yet totally works for the scale of that community. not everything needs to massively scale, and, in fact, I think the mistaken belief that everything has to scale has led to many people being dissuaded from building smaller communities like back in The Old Days.

* https://github.com/nim-lang/nimforum

Re: The old internet shows signs of quietly coming back

#26
post #19

When Walmart started taking over consumer goods, everyone thought small business was dead. All that was really died was the general store, and we saw a rise in boutique storefronts. Depending on their niche, people craved more than the lowest common denominator that Walmart provided, and these small businesses filled a need. I've long held that social media is following a similar trend. Much like Shopify, the next wa…

Yep, humanity and its demands are multifaceted. We want good stuff cheap and affordable as the rise of Walmart and Amazon goes to show. But we also want to feel unique and support recognizably human businesses. I don't see any reason why they both shouldn't exist.

Re: The old internet shows signs of quietly coming back

#27

I sure hope that's right. It was the best feeling in the world to stand up an Apache server on my Amiga, and later my little FreeBSD server, and see my friends viewing the website I was hosting on my dialup connection. It wasn't pretty, it wasn't elegant, and it certainly wasn't fast, but it was mine . I made that. From installing the server to writing the HTML, I owned that service from end to end and had completely…

I'm sympathetic. My first personal website (after a couple of, ahem, not personal ones) was about the film "The English Patient", and yes, I know that smile.

However, I think you're making a mistake that I also make quite often, of conflating the use and mastery of the technology required with the actual end goal.

Lots of people might like to create their own dedicated websites focused on some particular interest of their own. Very few of them have any interest in Apache, Amigas, FreeBSD, servers, operating systems, bandwidth, IPv6 or any of the technology that would underpin them doing this.

Hence ... Squarespace ;)

We (computer technologists in general, and web folk in specific) failed to make running servers a trivial matter, and as a result in 2022, the honest truth is that running your own website no longer has much to do with any of the skills we might have smiled about back in the day. At least not for 99% of the people who don't already do it but might somehow have an interest in the idea.

Re: The old internet shows signs of quietly coming back

#28
post #12
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah no, I wish we don't go back to that. It doesn't scale at all.

Why does it need to? You are not Amazon. In the unlikely event you become Amazon, you will be able to rearchitect. Trust me, Amazon did.

Never worry too much about problems you want to have.

Re: The old internet shows signs of quietly coming back

#29

I sure hope that's right. It was the best feeling in the world to stand up an Apache server on my Amiga, and later my little FreeBSD server, and see my friends viewing the website I was hosting on my dialup connection. It wasn't pretty, it wasn't elegant, and it certainly wasn't fast, but it was mine . I made that. From installing the server to writing the HTML, I owned that service from end to end and had completely…

I still run a half dozen VMs with genuinely ancient LAMP stacks and CGI code on a 5 year old desktop in my basement. People use those sites. Really the only thing that changed in last couple decades is that Docker makes admining those servers 1000x easier. The old web never went away, and the "new old web" will either fail to become popular or well become the "new new web". Eternal September is a social phenomenon an…

Who is your ISP?

Re: The old internet shows signs of quietly coming back

#30
> 'Some people use the term "Web 3.0" to refer only to decentralized blockchain-based networks without considering that all personal websites have essentially the same goals, be they on the regular Internet or on the new blockchain networks. Those who use the term "web 3.0" seem to have forgotten that self-hosted personal websites that run on home servers and are accessible over the regular Internet are inherently decentralized. Unfortunately, despite common goals, some on today's old Internet are hostile to blockchain technology. I am not sure why.'

What goals does today's crypto-token-powered "web 3" vision share with the old Internet? It's not enough to say "well it's decentralized" and do a handwave.

Consider the NFT exploration Moxie Marlinspike did recently:

https://moxie.org/2022/01/07/web3-first-impressions.html

This is essentially a system that lets you buy DRM'd metadata that points to servers owned by a corporation funded by billions of VC dollars, and transactions are recorded on a ledger that spends more power than the entire country of Finland. The only purpose of these activities is to speculate on prices of these make-believe digital assets.

None of these things have anything to with the old Internet: cargo cult DRM, billion-dollar VC funding, enormous energy waste, artificial scarcity where none is needed.

That website on dial-up was slow because of real physical constraints, not artificial constraints erected to make VCs richer at the expense of the planet's ecosystem.

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