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Nintendo Switch game cartridges taste offensively bad (2017)

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Re: Nintendo Switch game cartridges taste offensively bad (2017)

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether it's reasonable to use poison as a disincentive needs to depend on how often people consume it, accidentally or purposefully. If it's extremely rare, then this is a reasonable use case, even if we don't think poisoning is a reasonable punishment for tax avoidance (because, indeed, the poison is not intended to be a punishment). Likewise, we put up physical barriers like metal posts and concrete walls to dissu…

> If it's extremely rare, then this is a reasonable use case I don’t really see the point of risking poisoning people as a way of dissuading tax dodging especially when alternatives exist. In the same way we don’t put solid barriers on roads unless people walking need to be protected - when a barrier is there to dissuade a driver it’s designed so a car runs through a barrier without hurting the driver and passengers.

> I don’t really see the point of risking poisoning people as a way of dissuading tax dodging especially when alternatives exist.

You're not disagreeing with what I wrote.

> In the same way we don’t put solid barriers on roads unless people walking need to be protected

Not true. We also put up barriers when people driving over the line would merely be a nuisance, e.g. in parking lots or to keep people from entering closed areas.

Re: Nintendo Switch game cartridges taste offensively bad (2017)

#153

Yes. In the EU product "denatured alcohol" for most purposes is likewise treated with the same agent. This replaces the widespread use of methanol and similar products which are poisonous (yes even if you call the product "meths" it probably isn't methanol in the EU today). The rationale is that poisoning people is not an appropriate reaction to attempted tax avoidance. Alcohol is only "denatured" because booze is ta…

> there's no technical reason to use poison Yes, there is. Methanol and ethanol are very chemically similar and small amounts of methanol in your ethanol is usually acceptable from a chemical standpoint. But denatonium benzoate is not like ethanol, and can be a contaminant that destroys the process. To get around this, you either have to find old-fashioned methylated spirits in very high purity, pay the alcohol taxes…

Labs aren't buying their stuff at Walmart, so I don't know why they'd by affected by any remotely reasonable law. The supply houses can keep selling methylated alcohol, but let's get the unnecessary poisons off store shelves and out of consumer cabinets.

Re: Nintendo Switch game cartridges taste offensively bad (2017)

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether it's reasonable to use poison as a disincentive needs to depend on how often people consume it, accidentally or purposefully. If it's extremely rare, then this is a reasonable use case, even if we don't think poisoning is a reasonable punishment for tax avoidance (because, indeed, the poison is not intended to be a punishment). Likewise, we put up physical barriers like metal posts and concrete walls to dissu…

Your situations are not comparable. It's impossible for a human to tell the difference between methanol and ethanol using our readily available senses. Once the methylated spirit is removed from its container there's nothing to warn someone the alcohol is poison that will probably intoxicate, then kill or blind them. Methylated sprits substantially increase the risk of death for no other advantage than to prevent tax…

> It's impossible for a human to tell the difference...

You are arguing that the risk of accidental poisoning by methanol is in fact high. Thats an empirical question, and I explicitly agreed in my comment that if the risk is high then this is not a good method of disincentive. Importantly, your argument is not the one I was rebutting, that poisons are bad disincentives because they are inhumane punishments for tax evasion.

But more to your point: methanol poisoning is often used in situations where the potential drinkers are highly informed, e.g., people ordering chemicals out of a catalog. The risk, ultimately, is an empirical question, and you are invited to check how often accidental poisonings of this type happen.

> It's the equivalent of deciding the punishment for tax evasion is to execute one in every hundred tax evaders.

It's not, both in terms of numbers and in terms of principle.

> physical barriers are used to protect other road user...

You have misinterpreted my comment. I did not refer to protective barriers. There are plenty of examples where metal posts and concrete barriers are used to stop cars from getting to places where they would be a nuisance but not dangerous (e.g., pay parking lots, dedicated express lanes, and "no thru traffic" barriers).

Re: Nintendo Switch game cartridges taste offensively bad (2017)

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there's no technical reason to use poison Yes, there is. Methanol and ethanol are very chemically similar and small amounts of methanol in your ethanol is usually acceptable from a chemical standpoint. But denatonium benzoate is not like ethanol, and can be a contaminant that destroys the process. To get around this, you either have to find old-fashioned methylated spirits in very high purity, pay the alcohol taxes…

Labs aren't buying their stuff at Walmart, so I don't know why they'd by affected by any remotely reasonable law. The supply houses can keep selling methylated alcohol, but let's get the unnecessary poisons off store shelves and out of consumer cabinets.

No disagreement from me. I'm just saying there is a technical reason to use methanol denaturants sometimes.

Re: Nintendo Switch game cartridges taste offensively bad (2017)

#156

> People have speculated that the manufacturing process for Switch cartridges involves coating them in a layer of foul-tasting film, so as to discourage people from, well, putting the cartridges in their mouths. (Why do you think Play-Doh is so bitter and salty?) IIRC, Play-Doh is basically flour and the salt is there as a preservative.

I think it's more than that, it has something to do with its consistency. You can find recipes to make your own and they all use a seemingly ridiculous amount of salt.

Probably something to do with absorbing or that is storing moisture. Want to keep it relatively moist.

Re: Nintendo Switch game cartridges taste offensively bad (2017)

#157
post #50

If you own a Switch, I encourage you to drop whatever it is you're doing and go lick one of the cartridges. You need to experience this.

I just licked my $60 Super Mario Odyssey cart. I'm not tasting it :( I am so disappointed...

Re: Nintendo Switch game cartridges taste offensively bad (2017)

#158
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You tax alcohol for consumption but not for cleaning products, like rubbing alcohol. Now you need to figure out a way to stop people from consuming cleaning products.

Rubbing alcohol is often isopropyl alcohol instead of ethanol, which makes it even more toxic.

More toxic than what? I assumed you meant than methanol (which is added to ethanol-based cleaning products in the Netherlands), but then I read this on the Wikipedia page for isopropyl alcohol:

>Isopropyl alcohol, via its metabolites, is somewhat more toxic than ethanol, but considerably less toxic than ethylene glycol or methanol.

(Can't link link to the page due to mysterious iOS bug...)

Re: Nintendo Switch game cartridges taste offensively bad (2017)

#159
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this bitterant leave a residue when the alcohol evaporates? That seems like one benefit of methanol vs bitterant: all of the alcohol can still evaporate without depositing bitterant as a side effect. Are there bitterants that evaporate similarly to alcohol but are not toxic?

Here in Germany they add Butanone, which evaporates at very similar temperatures as ethanol so it’s very difficult to purify the ethanol even with a lab setup.

[deleted]

Re: Nintendo Switch game cartridges taste offensively bad (2017)

#160
post #158
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rubbing alcohol is often isopropyl alcohol instead of ethanol, which makes it even more toxic.

More toxic than what? I assumed you meant than methanol (which is added to ethanol-based cleaning products in the Netherlands), but then I read this on the Wikipedia page for isopropyl alcohol: >Isopropyl alcohol, via its metabolites, is somewhat more toxic than ethanol, but considerably less toxic than ethylene glycol or methanol. (Can't link link to the page due to mysterious iOS bug...)

Than ethanol (or denaturated ethanol).
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