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Doing too much work on one's own before looping in others

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Re: Doing too much work on one's own before looping in others

#91

Post by danielmarkbruce »

kitsunesoba wrote: post #54
sdoering wrote: post #29

I was more often than not 'guilty' of what the author describes. And I actually love being the lone detective on the hunt for a cool solution. I am not a dev by trade (data analyst) but still love to work on problems solved in code. A lot of the advice hit home, but what struck me was this part: > Encourage engineers to get something end to end launched internally as quickly as possible. This is something my boss nev…

The frustrating thing is when only the first half of this philosophy (ship now, fix/polish later) is adhered to, where things get shipped frequently but seldom followed up on. The incentive to finish things needs to be strong for not only the engineers but also for the product teams and managers directing them, but as far as I can observe this is exceptionally rare — in fact it almost seems like the norm for non-engi…

If you can present a metric which shows that said thing is bad on some dimension, and explain why it's bad for the customer (/business) and why what you will fix will improve it, and how much work is involved, you'll have a better chance of moving it through.

Re: Doing too much work on one's own before looping in others

#92

Post by aix1 »

billforsternz wrote: post #64

I chronically suffer from this problem. For example I started working on my chess software in 2008 and just yesterday someone raised an issue on GitHub asking me about pertft(). Gulp. Fortunately it turned out my chess logic does pass that very specific, very easy to check correct/not correct test. But it would have been much better to have checked I was building on solid ground 13 years ago!

Sorry, what's pertft()?

(Could be a straightforward typo, but I'm not seeing it. Also clearly not important to understanding your point, but I'm just very curious.)

Re: Doing too much work on one's own before looping in others

#93

Post by ketzo »

Ensorceled wrote: post #84

I have two big rules for developers that report to me: 1. The 5 minute rule. If you are stuck for more than 5 minutes reach out. Once the developer is on the team for a while, this becomes 15 or 30 minutes. Caveat ... truly stuck ... tried a couple of things, googled, tried some more ... wondering what to try next. One thing I try to do with a new start is go ask them for help in the same way, "Hey, 5 minute rule, I'…

What's a PRD?

Love the five-minute rule, by the way. I tried to apply that a lot especially when I was just starting at my job. So many things that I would spend two hours trying to fix, only to be told the next day that we had a super simple internal process to fix that thing.

Re: Doing too much work on one's own before looping in others

#94

Post by ttymck »

Victerius wrote: post #86
abofh wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are not wrong. I generally sell as a mercenary, and prefer it that way - I've been doing this longer than some of my managers have been alive. I'm paid just as well if they want to "pair program" or jira the whole process, but yeah, you hired me to fix a problem - if you are the problem, I get paid just the same. Welcome to the real world, if your work is interesting, the clock might not turn on when I'm having f…

> I've been doing this longer than some of my managers have been alive. In what organisation do 25 year olds manage 50 year olds?

Could a 30 year old manage a 60 year old? Certainly a 35 year old could manage a 57 year old?

Re: Doing too much work on one's own before looping in others

#95

Post by scrumbledober »

Victerius wrote: post #86
abofh wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are not wrong. I generally sell as a mercenary, and prefer it that way - I've been doing this longer than some of my managers have been alive. I'm paid just as well if they want to "pair program" or jira the whole process, but yeah, you hired me to fix a problem - if you are the problem, I get paid just the same. Welcome to the real world, if your work is interesting, the clock might not turn on when I'm having f…

> I've been doing this longer than some of my managers have been alive. In what organisation do 25 year olds manage 50 year olds?

I have met several engineers that were very much senior to their managers but did not want to make the shift from IC to management.

Re: Doing too much work on one's own before looping in others

#96

Post by Hermitian909 »

Victerius wrote: post #86
abofh wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are not wrong. I generally sell as a mercenary, and prefer it that way - I've been doing this longer than some of my managers have been alive. I'm paid just as well if they want to "pair program" or jira the whole process, but yeah, you hired me to fix a problem - if you are the problem, I get paid just the same. Welcome to the real world, if your work is interesting, the clock might not turn on when I'm having f…

> I've been doing this longer than some of my managers have been alive. In what organisation do 25 year olds manage 50 year olds?

I've known people who submitted working patches to the Linux kernel at 13, which I'd say is a reasonable start for "doing this". A 30 year old managing a 43 year old would not be strange at all.

Re: Doing too much work on one's own before looping in others

#98

Post by galdosdi »

Victerius wrote: post #86
abofh wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are not wrong. I generally sell as a mercenary, and prefer it that way - I've been doing this longer than some of my managers have been alive. I'm paid just as well if they want to "pair program" or jira the whole process, but yeah, you hired me to fix a problem - if you are the problem, I get paid just the same. Welcome to the real world, if your work is interesting, the clock might not turn on when I'm having f…

> I've been doing this longer than some of my managers have been alive. In what organisation do 25 year olds manage 50 year olds?

Anecdote, but this was the approximate case on the team I worked on at Google (Manager in his mid 30s, team mostly in their 20s with one in his 50s). It happens. Actually, it was nice to see, as some evidence of non-ageism.

I hope to no longer need to work by the time I'm 50, but nobody knows what the future will bring, so I'd certainly like to have the option just in case!

Re: Doing too much work on one's own before looping in others

#99

Post by imoverclocked »

Victerius wrote: post #86
abofh wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are not wrong. I generally sell as a mercenary, and prefer it that way - I've been doing this longer than some of my managers have been alive. I'm paid just as well if they want to "pair program" or jira the whole process, but yeah, you hired me to fix a problem - if you are the problem, I get paid just the same. Welcome to the real world, if your work is interesting, the clock might not turn on when I'm having f…

> I've been doing this longer than some of my managers have been alive. In what organisation do 25 year olds manage 50 year olds?

A lot. Technical managers need not be experienced technical talents who have made a potentially incompatible shift to management.

Re: Doing too much work on one's own before looping in others

#100

Post by Ensorceled »

Victerius wrote: post #86
abofh wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are not wrong. I generally sell as a mercenary, and prefer it that way - I've been doing this longer than some of my managers have been alive. I'm paid just as well if they want to "pair program" or jira the whole process, but yeah, you hired me to fix a problem - if you are the problem, I get paid just the same. Welcome to the real world, if your work is interesting, the clock might not turn on when I'm having f…

> I've been doing this longer than some of my managers have been alive. In what organisation do 25 year olds manage 50 year olds?

My first job out of university, I was promoted to manager in my mid 20s. One of the senior engineers reporting to me had kids older than me.

Now, they were PAID a lot more than me ...

The first thing they taught me was that it wasn't my job to do the work, because it didn't matter how smart I was, I didn't have almost 30 years experience.

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