The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation • Hacker News Board

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#351

Post by Stupulous » Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 6:50 PM UTC

zeusk wrote: post #324

Stupulous wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume they borrow against the after-tax value of the stock, because it will be taxed before being paid back(?) I don't know if that is significant, but I figure it's worth noting.

No that’s not how it works. Infact, you can get a margin loan at 0.75% interest from ibkr if you hold more than 50k usd of stock for half of its value. Of course, if that value drops you’ll get margin called for more collateral

Half of its value is less than after-tax value, which is at least the initial investment + 63% of the gains.

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#352

Post by WhompingWindows » Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 6:50 PM UTC

MithrilTuxedo wrote: post #71

howmayiannoyyou wrote: post #23

> The Great Renegotiation is also a byproduct of inflation. Workers are seeking better pay to keep up with the rising cost of living. Keeping in mind small business is collectively the largest employer and contributor to US output... let's remember the coming rate hikes will greatly reduce available cash to small businesses that operate with credit lines, credit card debt or via home equity lines. That is a LOT of US…

Aren't small businesses best positioned to adapt to these changes? It's not like they're sitting on piles of cash or other investments that are losing value. If costs go up they'll have to raise prices, just as the prices for what they're buying went up due to rising costs further upstream. I figured the pandemic cleared out most of the small businesses that would have failed within five years anyway (half do). I wou…

Death by a thousand paper cuts. As an example, the local breakfast shop. The owner claimed he couldn't find cheap employees anymore, they all left to sit at home on unemployment (his words, not mine). He also bemoaned the additional time for sanitizing everything. I saw his quality of food go down, and he didn't transition back to using real utensils (this is a major downside for me, thin plastic cutlery stinks).

Further, they didn't adapt digitally to the take-out heavy model. The prices went up across the board, too. You get a worse meal for 10% more than you used to get a good meal.

A multivariate model of all the inputs would show that many variables matter. They're losing demand, they're paying more for inputs, they're not able to get employees, rough spiral to be in.

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#353

Post by cwkoss » Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 6:51 PM UTC

beambot wrote: post #318

cwkoss wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The billionaire stock owner in your example's economic power has increased by 10x regardless though. They can borrow against that money and those funds aren't taxed - so they can effectively spend it without taxation. They can cycle debt to avoid ever having to sell a single share for their entire life, at rates more favorable than any middle class person has access to. We can fix our tax code with legislation to add…

Wealth != income. What you're advocating isn't changing a loophole, it's developing an entirely new tax (wealth tax) to supplant the old (income tax). It helps to be explicit.

The loophole is that you can get $1M deposited into your bank account, but because it's technically a loan it isn't considered income. This doesn't require a wealth tax, (and getting ex. a home loan shouldn't be taxed as income), but being able to utilize wealth to get a pile of cash that is not taxed is effectively untaxed income IMO.

A wealth tax could address this, but perhaps there are other legislative options, like (partial?) realization of capital gains when used as loan collateral in the income tax code, or something like that. I'd prefer that latter, as it seems more direct.

But I don't know the specific best way to address this, I'm no a tax expert. But, I think its pretty clear that this scheme is an abuse of the system and should be remedied in some way.

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#354

Post by slothtrop » Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 6:52 PM UTC

jklinger410 wrote: post #344

steelstraw wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's up with all the language games lately? "Defund the police". No no, we don't actually mean defund the police... "Anti work". No no, we don't actually mean we're anti work...

Intentional psi ops designed to create overreactions on both sides. Narratives in this country have to be fabricated for that effect before they are accepted. A single voice may have freedom of speech, but the accepted narrative is controlled and much louder.

It's what fuels culture wars and allows them to overshadow more pertinent issues. Media understands the power of irresponsible, incendiary language as bludgeons.

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#355

Post by jtbayly » Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 6:52 PM UTC

Stupulous wrote: post #336

jtbayly wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they haven’t adjusted the amounts for the tax brackets with inflation. So it’s a double whammy. Your money is worth less, even though you got more of it. And now Uncle Sam is taking more of it.

I cannot figure out why the US writes laws in terms of nominal value while maintaining an inflationary currency. The majority of lawmakers agree that a law should be x with respect to the current value of USD, why don't they also agree it should be x+inflation for a future value of USD? Maybe with a circuit breaker for hyperinflation. They don't have to rely on third party inflation numbers, because the Fed is a gove…

Probably, even if it is only accidentally. The Congressional Budget Office produces long-term estimates on things, and I'm guessing they aren't ignoring inflation. So, for example, a proposed law has $X ramification, according to the CBO, over the course of 10 years where X is an acceptable amount. If you were to adjust to make the law account for inflation, X would change, potentially into something not acceptable.

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#356

Post by whatshisface » Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 6:52 PM UTC

speed_spread wrote: post #349

whatshisface wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In reality, it's a delay of an inevitable downturn unless some magical productivity innovation or goods/services advance emerges to rescue the US economy. That sounds kind of like a plan. Delay until something random happens.

Unfortunately, War is not that random nor is it magic.

Nor is it good for the economy (see: Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afganistan, Iraq...).

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#357

Post by slothtrop » Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 6:53 PM UTC

orthecreedence wrote: post #331

kansface wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sub was originally anarchists who literally believe in not working - read the linked posts in the sidebar. It was taken over by socialists but the name stuck.

Anarchists are, in general, a subset of socialists. You have wacky things like anarcho-capitalists, but it's difficult to take them seriously. There are some rigorous ancaps who truly believe that somehow the state is not needed to protect absentee ownership of property and that this arrangement will be a net benefit to humanity, but many of them simply think the government is the only thing stopping them from owning…

Anything with an anarcho prefix can't be taken seriously.

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#358

Post by iso1631 » Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 6:54 PM UTC

DSMan195276 wrote: post #285

hungryhobo wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but you're still earning more than if you haven't gotten that 5% raise.

I think his point is that while a 5% raise and 5% inflation should be a wash, since you now pay slightly more taxes than before your pay after taxes is slightly less value than before. It's still very misleading to say "wage gains aren't good" though - the problem is not that you got a 5% raise, it's that inflation is 5% so you need a slightly-higher-than-inflation raise to keep up. If you didn't get a 5% raise you'd…

Presumably the tax brackets are linked to inflation too

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#359

Post by CountDrewku » Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 6:55 PM UTC

thesuitonym wrote: post #60

steelstraw wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's up with all the language games lately? "Defund the police". No no, we don't actually mean defund the police... "Anti work". No no, we don't actually mean we're anti work...

[flagged]

>When I say I'm anti-work, I mean exactly that: People should not have to work to live. What you hear is: "Nobody should ever do any work." That's not what anyone is saying. We're saying that people should be free to do work that is fulfilling and necessary, not busy-work created to keep the 40 hour work-week.

Sorry but this has to be the dumbest most elitist sheltered things I've heard.

You ARE free to do what you want. What you are not free to do is demand that others support you in this endeavor.

Is your idea that policeman, firefighters, emt, doctors, teachers, farmers and the the plethora of other jobs necessary to sustain modern life should work while you are allowed go off and spend your day in hot yoga classes while they support you????

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#360

Post by phendrenad2 » Tue, Jan 25, 2022, 6:56 PM UTC

duxup wrote: post #2

"The Great Resignation" feels a bit like a phrase that folks have grasped on to and just attach the narrative they want to believe to it. Constant articles and such with very little data. Very frustrating as a reader. The idea that amid a pandemic and such that there are a variety of reasons seems backed up by the data, although I admit that's what I'm inclined to believe / seen.

Yes, also I think it caught on because it sounds like people are standing up to bosses and corporations and escaping the rat race. Good for them! Good for the resigners!

Of course, as the NPR article points out, people are really just scrambling to find higher-paying jobs, because of rising costs for goods and services.