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The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

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Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#231

Post by lotsofpulp »

Sevii wrote: post #221
jonnycomputer wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that the bottom of the wage scale have seen the biggest gains, in real terms ( https://fortune.com/2021/12/10/inflation-wages-low-income-wo... ). Its the middle and upper middle class that are being made (a little) poorer by inflation. A fine trade-off imo. And given the asymmetry of the risks policy makers faced (great depression vs higher than average inflation), they wisely went with the risk o…

Wage gains aren't actually that good. A lot of people are going to be surprised they moved up in tax bracket while their standard of living went down.

What is the relevance of tax brackets? Earning more nominally while standard of living going down is the same as earning less in real terms.

“Moving up” in a tax bracket never means earning less in nominal or in real terms. It just means you get less in your pocket of the extra you earned, not of the total you earned.

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#232

Post by airstrike »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #185
MattGaiser wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really seems like you are most valued the day you are hired, with your value declining by the day.

The whole concept of value in terms of business transactions seems weird to me. It is ill defined and unactionable. Either you agree to buy or sell at a certain price, or not. “Value” plays no role in the determination of prices.

Whether you agree to buy or sell at a certain price is entirely dependent on whether such price is higher or lower than the value of the trade, in your own subjective assessment.

There are other meanings of the word "value" in business transactions, but that is probably the most common and fundamental one.

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#233

Post by ruined »

marcusverus wrote: post #162
hnaccount141 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In both of these cases "we" is a group of thousands of people with varying opinions. There are absolutely plenty of people who very much believe in defunding the police and ending work. As both movements have grown more popular we've naturally seen more people who agree with the general spirit of the movement but hold more moderate views.

The apologetics are always entertaining. "True, the subreddit is called /r/antiwork. And yes, their motto (right at the top of their page) is "Antiwork: Unemployment for all, not just the rich!". But is it fair to call them "Anti-work"? Have you considered their moderate membership?"

it's called recuperation. these are different sets of people.

"defund" is the progressive recuperation of abolition, and "nobody actually means defund" is the liberal recuperation of that.

the process is playing out again with anti-work.

it's hard for the radical origins to refuse the attention and alliance, even if it undercuts and defuses them in the end. at least the overton window moves a bit.

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#234

Post by brianjlogan »

Shouldn't this be a part of a healthy functioning economy?

Shouldn't labor be free to move where demand is? Demand represented by fairer compensation.

I have a hard time believing these people are permanently quitting work. Rather think of it from the point of a business trying to attract new customers.

I can see the inflation affecting me in my purchases and it's not breaking me. Restaurants are charging more and it's making me re-evaluate how important dining out is if it means trapping people in a low wage job they hate.

Do I really wish for someone not to move up the ladder into a better position just so I can choose from some 50 restaurants in my area? Would my life still not support the indulgence of being able to eat out with say 25 restaurants instead of 50? And with a heftier bill but less frequently going out to eat?

I think America is finally exercising some of the benefits of capitalism for the lower class and not just for the elite.

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#235

Post by claudiulodro »

c7DJTLrn wrote: post #215
bjourne wrote: post #104

"Yet, despite all the quitting and renegotiating, the real wage for the average American worker — meaning the true value of their paycheck after taking into account inflation — fell by 2.4% in 2021." All while the world's elites have doubled or tripled their fortunes. Great Robbery would be a more apt name than Great Resignation.

Come on. Most of the people in first world countries were forced to stay at home and depend on the services that these "elites" provided. How exactly is it unfair that they make more profit from wider reach? A large portion of Americans who received COVID cheques burned it on toys and leisure instead of saving and their money went upwards. How is that unfair?

> Approximately 159 million economic impact payments, totaling more than $376 billion, have gone out to eligible recipients in the last month — and the majority of that money continues to be spent on groceries, rent and other monthly bills, according to a new survey released Wednesday. [1]

The vast majority of the stimulus money was spent on bills, not frivolity.

[1] https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/how-are-stimu...

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#236

Post by georgyo »

altcognito wrote: post #203
jonnycomputer wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that the bottom of the wage scale have seen the biggest gains, in real terms ( https://fortune.com/2021/12/10/inflation-wages-low-income-wo... ). Its the middle and upper middle class that are being made (a little) poorer by inflation. A fine trade-off imo. And given the asymmetry of the risks policy makers faced (great depression vs higher than average inflation), they wisely went with the risk o…

Wage gains are not being treated the same as investment gains. It's not like Bezos is taking home an hourly rate. Everybody at the real top is doing quite, quite well. That's why the concentration of wealth into a very few hands at the top marches on, not because of "wages".

Your touching on a much more complicated subject about reporting.

If someone one owns a billion dollars of stock foobar, and foobar grows 10x, then that person is now worth 10B and "made" 9B. However they have not sold anything so while they can be reported as making 9B, they are none of it was directly cash and not taxed; at least not yet.

However, while Bezos "only" has a salary/bonus of 1.5 million a year, it is very common for executives to have total comp packages in the 10s to hundreds of millions a year. These can easily be converted into hourly rate equivalents because there is only so many hours you can work a year.

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#237

Post by giantg2 »

MattGaiser wrote: post #212
giantg2 wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

18 month tenure seems short, even for IT employees. Better off just staffing with contractors if that's truly expected.

Devs seem to last two years, but they make the decision to leave well before that, so you need to get a retention offer in before they start the job search.

Any data on that?

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#238

Post by Apocryphon »

marcusverus wrote: post #162
hnaccount141 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In both of these cases "we" is a group of thousands of people with varying opinions. There are absolutely plenty of people who very much believe in defunding the police and ending work. As both movements have grown more popular we've naturally seen more people who agree with the general spirit of the movement but hold more moderate views.

The apologetics are always entertaining. "True, the subreddit is called /r/antiwork. And yes, their motto (right at the top of their page) is "Antiwork: Unemployment for all, not just the rich!". But is it fair to call them "Anti-work"? Have you considered their moderate membership?"

This website is named Hacker News, yet there is an abundance of content that is neither for nor about hackers, nor news.

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#239

Post by tuckerpo »

brianjlogan wrote: post #234

Shouldn't this be a part of a healthy functioning economy? Shouldn't labor be free to move where demand is? Demand represented by fairer compensation. I have a hard time believing these people are permanently quitting work. Rather think of it from the point of a business trying to attract new customers. I can see the inflation affecting me in my purchases and it's not breaking me. Restaurants are charging more and it…

Anecdotal - myself and most of my peers (software, EE) have moved onto new jobs during the pandemic for gargantuan raises. I don't know anyone in a white collar field who quit and is just chilling now. Old friends who work retail also quit for other retail jobs with slightly better pay, more hours, etc. It brings me joy to see the average person finally realizing their worth and leveraging a little bit of personal risk for better compensation.

Re: The Great Resignation? More Like the Great Renegotiation

#240

Post by wonderwonder »

rootusrootus wrote: post #199
giantg2 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"meaning the true value of their paycheck after taking into account inflation — fell by 2.4% in 2021." This has been going on for like 30-40 years. It's sad, but nothing new. I got about a 4.5% value cut this year.

> I got about a 4.5% value cut this year. I have not done the math, but I would not be surprised to see this is true for me. Certainly feels like it. I do not hate my current job, and I loathe interviewing, but I feel like I will need to jump soon just so I can push the reset button and get my compensation to keep up with inflation lately.

I got a ~50% raise last year by changing jobs and switching to 1099. This year I did not get a raise, contract just renewed as is. So I got a 50% raise to start the year and after inflation took a 10% cut at the end of the year. I like the job but I think I have maxed the salary there so going to have to find a new one at the end of this year. Pretty unfortunate but I can't eat a pay cut every year. I have a feeling most software engineers are in a similar situation where the market is good, why take a cut or only 3% raise during out of control inflation when we can jump and get a 20% raise.
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